The Big Secret...

[captain]

Walter,
Not really sure what you are agreeing to or disagreeing to.

I will make it simple.

1. I feel that a recognized scuba certification should be required in order to purchase scuba equipment(bcd, tanks, regs) or scuba services(air fills, charters).

Jeffrey

For what good reason please tell? I can buy a car without a drivers license, an airplane without a pilots license, a boat without a captains license, a firearm with no instruction how to use it. The list goes on and on of things that can maim and kill I can buy by
just handing over the cash and I can kill and injure a lot more peoples with these things than just myself. What exactly makes diving equiptment so different?

 

[cuddlefish]

This isn't some big secret. It's old news, common knowledge. Of course you can buy a tank and compressor and just go dive. I would like to say, though, that the big diving agencies, PADI for example, do provide liability protection for you if you follow their time tested standards and procedures. In the event of a lawsuit, would you rather be able to show documentation that you have followed each time tested and industry approved safety and training measure, OR would you rather be singing "I did it myyyyyyy waaaaayyyyyy"?

 

[Heffey]

For what good reason please tell?

Oh man, I didn't know I was going to have to back up my statements.

Ok, here is my one good reason.

There is no intuitive thinking or common sense reasoning which will protect an untrained would-be diver from DCI or overexpansion injuries. There are no warning signs to let them know they are getting into dangerous territory. They could dive happily day after day until they kill themselves and not ever know they were at risk.

This is a self regulated industry and having numerous untrained divers killing themselves, is in my opinion one of the quickest ways to invite the government to the party. No RSVP needed.

This is actually one of the only situations where I believe in protecting people from themselves.

I can buy a car without a drivers license, an airplane without a pilots license, a boat without a captains license, a firearm with no instruction how to use it. The list goes on and on of things that can maim and kill I can buy by
just handing over the cash and I can kill and injure a lot more peoples with these things than just myself.

Well, in my opinion this is where the statement, “just because you can, doesn’t mean you should” comes into play. I can speed down the highway in a stolen plane, shooting my unregistered handgun in the air, drunk out of my mind while singing the theme to love boat, but, I probably won’t because I have enough common sense and life experience to tell me that this could go very bad.

I think people should be able to kill themselves any way they want to for whatever reasons suit them as long as they don’t take anyone out who doesn’t want to go.

All of the examples you gave are good examples of what you should not be able to do.

Where I live in Canada, you can’t buy a gun without taking a safety course, you can’t operate a boat or PWC without operator card and when I bought my last truck I had to show my valid license, proof of insurance and I had to listen to the sales agent go over all of the safety issues regarding the vehicle. I don’t really know about the plane, because in my wacky life everyone I know who bought a plane was a licensed pilot. Go figure.

 

[Scubadelic]

Personally, why get the government involved with regulating the sport/hobby/career of diving? The various diving organizations (PADI, SSI, YMCA, etc...) plus the diving community, in general, do just fine.

Plus, if an adult doesn't want to take the time to learn the proper SCUBA skills and go diving... let 'em. It's their body. Let them do what they want. If they want to assume the risks and responsibilities of diving without the proper certification... then, as far as I'm concerned, they accept the consequences of their actions.

However, don't expect me to dive with them.


Addendum: Childrens, without exception, should undergo training and certification.

 

[StSomewhere]

Anyone who has actual, first-hand experience with government bureaucracies would know better than to get those policy wonks involved. In my previous career I've seen innocent people ruined financially from tangling with the IRS. Think about that long and hard before you create power in a governmental agency where years of service and the lack of commission of a felony are the only two employee performance review criteria. Someone will create a stupid policy, and the only yardstick that will be used will be whether a particular situation meets the definition of that policy. NOT common sense. NOT reason. NOT scientifically indisputable evidence to the contrary. I personally could not imagine a worse outcome for the industry than that.

 

[captain]

If trained or untrained divers in some way were killing or injuring innocent(non divers) people by their lack of training or incompetance I can see where the government might have an interest in protecting the public. Other than that I can't see the government getting involved. Almost all government regulation is for the general public's protection not the individudal

 

[ScubaSixString]

Personally, why get the government involved with regulating the sport/hobby/career of diving? The various diving organizations (PADI, SSI, YMCA, etc...) plus the diving community, in general, do just fine.

Plus, if an adult doesn't want to take the time to learn the proper SCUBA skills and go diving... let 'em. It's their body. Let them do what they want. If they want to assume the risks and responsibilities of diving without the proper certification... then, as far as I'm concerned, they accept the consequences of their actions.

However, don't expect me to dive with them.


Addendum: Childrens, without exception, should undergo training and certification.

The GOVT shouldn't be involved. But if you advocate just letting skippy buy a tank and go dive, you're asking for them to be. Recent example, ephedra. NOT A DRUG. NOT IN THE JURISDICTION of the FDA. What happens? (according to the FDA anyway) a "bunch" of people are hurt or killed taking it. Sure it says not to take it if you have high blood pressure, heart disease, etc. Sure it says not to take more than the dose. Sure it says not to combine with caffine. But you get some folks who don't follow instructions and the FDA decides its a drug now and you can't have it.

Same thing will happen with diving if the industry doesn't regulate itself.


As for not diving with a self taught diver, how are you going to prevent that? Right now, if you buddy up with a guy on a charter (which might not be a good idea, but people do it) you can be reasonably ensured that he has at least been certified (he might not have been diving in 3 decades, but he was certified)

 

[ScubaSixString]

If trained or untrained divers in some way were killing or injuring innocent(non divers) people by their lack of training or incompetance I can see where the government might have an interest in protecting the public. Other than that I can't see the government getting involved.

You are confusing what should be with what will be.

If enough people hurt themselves doing stupid things, the govt will feel compelled to save you from yourself. Thats the way it is.

Seat belts? Belt up your kid but if you want to die, i think that should be your right. But the govt cites rising insurance prices as a reason to make it illegal not to wear one.

 

[captain]

By the way, they didn't sit down to wait , they sat down to rest. You can't rest if you expect to attain victory

 

[ScubaSixString]

By the way, they didn't sit down to wait , they sat down to rest. You can't rest if you expect to attain victory

Good point, Captain. That makes more sense. Why would you wait