The Aqualung Discussion [ Moved ]

[mdb]

Question: Wasn't AL Jacque Custeau's company? And if so isn't he supposed to "noble"?

www.darkendeavors.com/commentaries/1997/06-25-1997.asp

He may well have been "noble". I hope so, he inspired me.

 

[james croft]

J. Cousteau was "The Man"" and is a sentmental favorite of mine. I don't care if you call it Aqualung or US divers, I feel they were "The first to dive." I think every diver who understands the progression of diving history owes him a debt. I don't want anybody twisting my arm to buy AL. I am a free market conservative. I buy equipment based on many intangibles. Aqualund/US Divers based on reliability and their reputation and not to be lightly dismissed. Their double hose regulator is one I am still diving 40 years later. I dive Scubapro, but name one doublehose Scubapro regulator. Catch my drift? I have a sense of customer loyalty, but I have buddies who are closing down their LDS because of competion. Build a better regulator and the world will beat a path to your door. I will not desert a sentimental favorite, but I will not be force fed a product through strong arm tactics.
If everybody competes and tries to produce a great product, everybody wins. IMA, I have yet to see anybody come up with a cooler logo than Aqualung.

 

[MikeFerrara]

ok I've read a bunch including Phil's post on the decostop.

Aqualung may be one of the biggest but their policies are NOT at all unuque in the industry. In fact it's ptretty much par for the course.

I have experience with several manufacturers and for the most part there's little difference between them. There are exceptions but very few that I found and I looked for them. In fact, I can only think of 3 name brands (all fairly small) and a few smaller suppliers that aren't manufaturers themselves. There could be more but not of the ones that I did business with when I had a dive shop.

Some one earlier in the thread mentioned Genesis and suggested that he might have been ahead of his time. Maybe, but for the most part, consumers get what they want and are happily unknowing and bliss to the rest of it. for those who do remember, we have had threads that went scores of pages in the past concerning these very practices. Really, fairly few cared or even noticed. I don't let the dive shops off the hook but they always took the brunt of the blame. You need something like the threat of a law suit or an infringement on the sacred right to free speach to make it more like a cause and then every one is up in arms. I guess that's a natural progression of things but I'm not sure which part of it makes me more ill.

On a good note...

Pete,

I was going to PM you but decided not to. It seems like you and I rarely agree and we have disagreed in public more than once so I thought I'd voice my agreement in public also. I think you done good this time.

 

[RonFrank]

In the dive shop owner defence, the agencies and the manufacturers work to keep them in a place where the their labor in teaching is what sells the equipment. So...a dive shop owner, teaches, fills tanks, baby sits, wipes noses and lies to their customers (only sometimes they actually believe what they say) and after those hundreds of hours of work and risk, they sell a bc which so many accuse them of over pricing. I don't know who is taken advantage more. The consumer gets ripped off even if they buy on the net cheap because they still can't dive worth dog doodoo....they got an almost free class that was worth every cent they paid and the dive shop owner spent a thousand dollars in labor or sweat to make $100 on a bc while if he had just went to work he would have gotten the whole $1000 and the manufacturer don't even give him a kiss.

The whole thing is like amway or something.

We hear this a lot, but is it true? Our LDS charges $300 for the class, and another $80 for the course materials. As I can find these same materials for under $45 on Ebay, I'd have to believe the materials carry a good markup. The training certainly involves overhead, but I know about what the instructors make and it seems like training is hardly a loss leader, at least in the Denver market. A typical class is eight students, and a typical checkout weekend often involves 24+ OW students with just two or three instructors.

I'm not going to figure out all the math as I can not. But I'd say that in a given month there are at LEAST 30 students taking OW (likely a lot more), and they also have students that continue training. At $3800 gross for 30 students, that is not chump change. Further based on my observations, the LDS will sell at LEAST 50% of those students personal gear to the tune of $300~$400 per student. Actually my observation is more like 80+% purchase personal gear, but I hardly monitor this.

Add bubble maker classes for kids (very popular) and the advanced training that many divers take, and training should be profitable. IMO our LDS does a good job with said training even if many believe that it could be done better, or at least their should be more time spent diving before certification.

In any event, our LDS is popular. Rarely do I go in even on a weeknight and find the pool empty, or the retail store doing nothing. In fact quite the opposite. Add in their service and travel department, and dispite that they are not a big internet dealer (they do some internet) this LDS is doing well from everything I can tell.

Unlike small camera stores which I have in fact watched go out of business where they basically compete only on price, the LDS actually has some advantages.

This is a bit off topic as it really is not addressing AL, or how manufactures treat their retailers, but I always hear how the LDS's don't make a dime on training, and I find that difficult to believe.

 

[redacted]

We hear this a lot, but is it true? Our LDS charges $300 for the class, and another $80 for the course materials. As I can find these same materials for under $45 on Ebay, I'd have to believe the materials carry a good markup. The training certainly involves overhead, but I know about what the instructors make and it seems like training is hardly a loss leader, at least in the Denver market. A typical class is eight students, and a typical checkout weekend often involves 24+ OW students with just two or three instructors.

I'm not going to figure out all the math as I can not. But I'd say that in a giving month there are at LEAST 30 students taking OW, and they also have students that continue training. At $3800 gross for 30 students, that is not chump change. Further based on my observations, the LDS will sell at LEAST 50% of those students personal gear to the tune of $300~$400 per student. Actually my observation is more like 80+% purchase personal gear, but I hardly monitor this.

Add bubble maker classes for kids (very popular) and the advanced training that many divers take, and training should be profitable. IMO our LDS does a good job with said training even if many believe that it could be done better, or at least their should be more time spent diving before certification.

In any event, our LDS is popular. Rarely do I go in even on a weeknight and find the pool empty, or the retail store doing nothing. In fact quite the opposite. Add in their service and travel department, and dispite that they are not a big internet dealer (they do some internet) this LDS is doing well from everything I can tell.

Unlike small camera stores which I have in fact watched go out of business where they basically compete only on price, the LDS actually has some advantages.

This is a bit off topic as it really is not addressing AL, or how manufactures treat their retailers, but I always hear how the LDS's don't make a dime on training, and I find that difficult to believe.

The real question is how difficult is it for a dive shop to find instructors or a potential diver to find instruction. My impression is they are not in short supply. When there is any difficulty at all buying instruction that customers want, then the price should increase.

 

[havnmonkey]

i've heard similar arguments in the surf industry... when it comes to buying a board. The surf shops don't sell enough boards to make much money on them. Where do the $520 go that I must now spend to get a board out of the shop?

IS the volume of sale on these items so low that they must be priced high to make up for it?

OR is it the manufacturer that causes these prices?

I'm leaning more towards "MSRP" as the culprit.

 

[cerich]

The real question is how difficult is it for a dive shop to find instructors or a potential diver to find instruction. My impression is they are not in short supply. When there is any difficulty at all buying instruction that customers want, then the price should increase.

I am asked at least every week if I know of Instructors looking for work

 

[budcann]

I'll donate to your defense, I'm sure there would be many others. Thanks.

 

[scubapro50]

What would happen if Wal Mart started selling "Scuba Gear" in their sporting goods department? Knowing Wal Mart policies on controlling product and prices who would win ... Wal Mart or the Scuba Manfuctures? Which one of the dive companies would change their practices for a chance to be sold by the worlds largest retailer? You think the LDS have problems with internet sales now ..... what would happen if Cressi , XS , Aeris or Aqualung deceided to sell thru Wal Mart ?

 

[redacted]

I am asked at least every week if I know of Instructors looking for work

When something is in demand but in short supply, it should result in higher prices. Is the problem that instructors just don't exist in the area or that they can't be lured to the shorthanded shops at the price they are willing to pay?