The all-inclusive tipping note -- Boats, DMs & Instructors

[hvulin]

Most of Europe is a different story...

I'm from Croatia and tipping is not expected... (except for doctors and nurses , sad, but true most of the time)

People are paid to do it, and if you like it , just paying for a simple drink will be taken with gratitude...

but tipping is just one of many things different in our cultures... (and there is no fast way to learn it, but forums like this help a lot...)

 

[Freeflyer]

and now living in the us, there is certainly a big difference in how tips are expected. In europe it's common, but not expected, in the us it is always expected (I'm not referring specifically to diving here).

I found it difficult when I first started coming to the states many years ago, and frankly I was embarrased to offer dollars here and there for everything, and ended up in some fairly heated discussions about it. Now I'm more used to it, and resigned to the requirement.

On one occasion, I was in a restaurant for lunch. The service was simply appalling, the food came out wrong, then it came out cold, the waiter was taking no interest in us and I actually had to get up and go to the bar just to get our drinks. At the end of the meal (there were two americans and two brits at our table) I was about to leave when one of the americans suggested that I should leave a tip. I was appalled and refused. As we left we were met at the door by the manager who told me that it was 'customary' to leave a tip, as the waiters were paid minimum wage and relied on tips. I told him that the waiters should try and work for their tips then and offer a service that justifies the charge. TIPS originally stood for 'To Insure Prompt Service' and was paid to the Maitre D' when you entered a restaurant. Now it's seen as something expected and allows businesses to pay sub standard wages.

Don't get me wrong, I tip most of the time, but my tip is related to the level of service I receive. If I'm at a restaurant where the service is good, where the waiters are knowlegable and help you make good selections etc, then they get a bigger tip. If it's a smaller place and the wait staff are smiling and friendly, then again I tip well. If it's a surly person with no interest in your welfare, they're not getting a bean. It's all about service.

From a diving perspective, when I first started diving I was in a resort where the cost of the dive included everything and the DM's were paid (It was a very small resort in the Maldives). It wasn't until later when I was diving elsewhere that I discovered that DM's aren't usually paid. I sat and chatted with a couple of the DM's on that trip and discovered that this was how they built their experience toward becoming an instructor. They were paying their dues, and living as best they could. This was when I started leaving tips. The amount is still dependent on the level of servic I receive, as I believe it should be. I don't believe tips should be a set amount as the value of the tip is going to vary around the world, but guidelines are also helpful. In some countries, as has been mentioned, tips are not welcomed.

I currently work in an industry where sometimes I receive tips (I'm a massage therapist). In some circumstances (generally working from my office) I have refused them, because I don't believe they were appropriate in the environment/pay level that I was working (I get all the money I charge) suggesting that if someone wished to leave something extra that they donate it to a charity they believe in; in other places (such as spa's) they were much appreciated because I gave a big cut (40-60%) of my wages to the organisation that organised my work for me.

As someone who hopes to become a DM next year, I won't be expecting tips, but if I find they are given where I'm working, then you can be sure that I will be doing everything in my power to ensure that the service I provide justifies them.

My 2c, and no intention of starting flames.

J.

 

[Scubatooth]

metridium once bubbled...

If I request special services, then yes, a tip is definitely in order. Otherwise, no. After all, you wouldn't tip for takeout, would you?

ok i know this is a old post but this caught my eye as i work in a restraunt, and take take out (ToGo) orders.

my question isnt why wouldnt you, when you call the restraunt i take the call right everything down including optional items, and/or making menu reccomendations for people who need some advise.

in addition to this i also offer/ask if they want any appitizers or desserts to go along with the main course so its basically the same if they came in to the restraunt to eat. then i have to put it all in the computer system, with some other information since its not a normal order (IE name and phone number along with time entered into the system,etc)

then finally once the person arrives, i have to read back them the whole order, show them that everything is correct, repack the bag and settle up the order(and this is if the order is ready before they arrive, if not i have to do a normal service to see if they want anything to drink while they wait etc).

While all of this is going on im doing my normal bartending duties, which 4 out of 5 times im making drinks while taking orders (one hand writing and another shaking a drink, thank goodness for wireless phone ear pieces)

for example i work in a mid-upper range mexican restraunt in the dallas texas area( the part of town the restraunt is in has many homes in the .75-2.5 million dollar range), and on sunday night i got a customer who just blew my mind about how rude and mean people can be in reguards to tipping

They ordered house ribeye stake (14oz-- gentlemen), and his whife ordered best of the house (which is a combonation beef and shrimp dish) and both had about 3 a person of $10 marguritas (hand made, by me since i was in the bar that night), before there dinner they were eating the chips and salsa like crazy so i was replacing them like crazy every 3 to 5 minutes, so then i get there dinner out to them and replace the chips and salsa (which are provided to them for free) so when i come back about 5 minutes later to see how everything is he starts to complain that the chips are greasy and that he wants to talk to a manager, well i complied with his request and got the manager who tried to get the guy to calm down, and even offerred to give them dessert for free and they refused say that all they wanted was the check. so the manager got them the check and tried to calm them down again, well they sign it and leave and i go to check what they left. They left me a dollar on a $85-100 check which really ticked me off because i was busy with the bar and other customers and was taking care of this guy the best i could do and i got stiffed because the chips were greasy ( give me a break there tortilla pieces fried in oil, what did you expect, and i looked at that basket of chips and they were less greasy then others i have delivered that night, and the kitchen manager even agreed with me) now thats just plain rude, but its been noted so that the next time they come in they will be watched much closer.




for normal boat trips my tip is $5 per tank and if they did anything above and beyond the call increase it as necessary, and then it goes to the person who gave "the above the call" service

and in restraunts as a rule of thumb if the service was to standard i double the tax of the bill (in my area its 8.25%) and based on service its adjusted from there

 

[simbrooks]

We tip between us about $10 for the DM, however we are only poor recovering students with those kinds of debts!!!

Even, we havent had incredible service off of dive boats so far, so it only warranted that. Our trip to Crystal River and the springs we gave our two DM's $10 each, they acted like they had never seen a tip off the tourists though! On our trip to Jupiter recently we had two dives, but each time the DM shot off, so didnt get much more than the briefing!

 

[Jerryg]

Where I dive in the Carribean a two tank dive costs $60. I tip 20% or $12 per day. I usually save the tipping till the last day and give one lump sum. I break the $12 into 1/3 for the crew, and 2/3 for the dive master. I keep a list of crew names and dive masters and tip them individually for services rendered. Since my wife dives as well the tip can add up to a nice lump sum on departure day. The boats are 6 Pax so there is not a large crew to contend with. Since my wife and I are repeat customers at the dive shop, we seem to get extra special attention whenever we return. And they will see us again in February

 

[sumguy]

Freeflyer once bubbled...
...TIPS originally stood for 'To Insure Prompt Service'...
J.

Actually, I believe it originally stood for "To Insure Preference".
Which is grammatically incorrect. It should be "Ensure", but who wants to leave a Tep?

 

[metridium]

Scubatooth once bubbled...


ok i know this is a old post but this caught my eye as i work in a restraunt, and take take out (ToGo) orders.

my question isnt why wouldnt you...

I wouldn't because there's normally no optional part of takeout.

In a sit-down restaurant, you're buying the product and tipping for the additional service given, such as prompt attention, bringing extra items, and keeping glasses full. You're paying for the value added.

In a takeaway, you're buying the finished product and nothing else. There's no value added.

No disrespect intended, but how the product is prepared is the restaurant's responsibility and the cost of preparation is included in the menu price. Most times I'd have no clue who's preparing it or how anyway.

Sorry to hear how you were stiffed. That's not the situation we're talking about here though.

Tipping dive staff just because they're there, whether they help you or not, is sort of akin to eating in an otherwise empty restaurant and tipping all the servers, not just the one who helped you.

I'm happy to pay a reasonable amount for whatever optional services I use, but I don't see the point of paying for what I didn't get.

 

[metridium]

voop once bubbled...
Say, you bring your own gear (sans cylinders, weights), don't rely on nor let anyone else set up your kit and you're diving alone with your buddy (i.e. that you do not need to be shephearded around and have someone check your SPG for you)? It seems to me that the crew salary, the tanks+weights and the boat ride should be inclusive in that price, no?

The tanks and weights may be included in the price or they may not. The boat ride and basic dive information should be included in the price.

voop once bubbled...
Tipping, where I come from, is something done for "extraordinary services". I do not consider that "fullfillment of duty" as "extraordinary". I'd consider "fullfillment of duty" as what I pay for when I pay for the trip.

Agreed, with the exception of jobs like waiters, etc. where the employee is paid less then minimum wage in recognition of tipping income.

And, no, it's not a Europe vs. US thing. There are many here who feel as you do.

 

[metridium]

Mo2vation once bubbled...


I think divers that stiff on a trip should get tossed into the drink...

I can see that for someone who stiffs after getting extra treatment, but for someone who brings his own gear, sets it up alone, dives in and reboards with no help, etc, why would you say that? What's to pay for?

Something for nothing? Isn't that the concept behind welfare?

 

[caymaniac]

In Bonaire on a boat trip for a week, I was on a boat where the DM's loaded the tanks on board. The DM's there did nothing else, they didn't arrange my equip., they didn't help me in or out of the water, they did hand me my camera, they wouldn't take us to the sights that we wanted ( we had a writer photographer on board from a dive mag.), I thought they (DM's) acted coldly and I considered telling the operations but I thought NOT tipping would be better.
I took a trip to the Brac, they loaded the tanks, helped all in and out of the water, changed tanks, asked if they had the equip. correct, rinsed my gear after each dive,......I DID tip! My wife and I did 16 dives each, I tipped about $100 for both.
I did a five day liveaboard in Australia and tipped about the same.

Dive Safe,
Caymanaic :mean: