The 40% Rule!

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Regarding the Nasa fire , Nasa was advised by one of the consultants ( an MIT prof ) who also happened to be the co developer of the Electro Lung, ( for the electronics side) to use Nitrox and not pure O2. Well nasa boffins knew better and Wham.
Shil
 
I don't know of any shops that I used in the last 5 years that had a membrane system. All of them around here are PP setups. I had 2 shops tell me I was wasting my money setting up my fill station for CB.
 
I don't know of any shops that I used in the last 5 years that had a membrane system. All of them around here are PP setups. I had 2 shops tell me I was wasting my money setting up my fill station for CB.

Interesting, around here most of the LDS's have membrane systems. there is only one quarry that I know of that does PP fills. like I said, i am still new and only know of the places I have been within about a 125 mile radius of home tho.
 
I am not a super tech diver and never claimed to be one but,
When I became a Nitrox diver then an Instructor I went with ANDI.
I am also a gas blender and service tech with them. I talked with Ed Betts and learned a lot from him and then I worked down in Key Largo above Dick Rutkowski's place and over many beers I asked about the 40% rule and learned a lot from him as well. I wish I could print what he told me but, they cut out swear words here. So I talked with a number of well known people and must tell you all I am as confused as ever!
PM me and I will tell you my own beliefs as I don't want to be crucified by someone from anytown usa who knows more than me. I would like to think I have heard it from the Horses mouth except each Horse told me the other was full of Baloney.
 
You are right on that!
When Hyper Dick got going he had the Bruce Banner eyes right as he started to turn into the Hulk with the good, bad and the ugly whistle at the same time!
 
So NASA actually tested stuff like 38% and 45% to come up with the 40% guideline, great. They called <40% "safe enough" for their quasi-military purposes.

CGA says only stuff <23.5% is "safe" for commercial purposes. Ok I can see why it might be different, but where did 23.5% threshold come from? If NASA couldn't get 35% to "fan the flames" so to speak, how did CGA? What is this based on? Or is this some sort of 3-sigma calculation off the 40%?

I don't have access to the actual CGA guidelines and there's no way I'm buying them.
 
Here is a "FAQ" from Luxfer:
Few concepts have caused more confusion and controversy in the recreational diving industry than the so-called &#8220;40% rule.&#8221; While there seems to be general agreement that special cleaning is required when a pressurized oxygen concentration reaches a particular &#8220;threshold&#8221; percentage, there is disagreement about exactly what that threshold should be and at what pressure it becomes important. Some say 40%; others say 23.5%; still others say anything more than 21% when a gas mixture is pressurized more than 100 psig. It would be helpful to explore the background of this confusion briefly before discussing Luxfer&#8217;s position on this vital subject.

The 40% threshold is cited in a single Federal CFR published by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) of the U.S. Department of Labor: 29CFR910.430, which applies to &#8220;Commercial Diving Operations&#8221; and states in the section titled &#8220;Oxygen safety&#8221; on page 854: &#8220;(1) Equipment used with oxygen or mixtures containing over forty percent (40%) by volume oxygen shall be designed for oxygen service. (2) Components (except umbilicals) exposed to oxygen or mixtures containing over forty percent (40%) by volume oxygen shall be cleaned of flammable materials before use.&#8221;

Please note that OSHA also provides a very specific definition about who should&#8212;and should not&#8212;be considered a &#8220;commercial diver&#8221; to whom the 40% threshold applies: &#8220;Commercial diver means a diver engaged in underwater work for hire excluding sport and recreational diving and the instruction thereof&#8221; (46CFR197, page 409; italics added for emphasis).

Even though OSHA clearly excludes sport and recreational divers from the CFR that specifies a 40% threshold, some professionals in the recreational diving industry have nonetheless been citing the OSHA &#8220;rule&#8221; for many years and maintaining that special cleaning of recreational diving equipment is not necessary with oxygen concentrations of 40% or less. These advocates of the &#8220;40% rule&#8221; have often stated that the U.S. Navy supports their position, which at one time was true&#8212;but no more. In the current applicable military specification (Mil-Std-1330D), the Navy specifies a 25% threshold for oxygen cleaning. Compounding the confusion is the fact that two other OSHA documents, 29CFR1910.146 and 29CFR1910.134, specify an oxygen threshold of 23.5%.


Luxfer recommends 23.5% primarily because they are a member of CGA and because it costs them nothing to do so.

Now, where did "23.5%" come from. Well, grade D air is defined by its composition which includes oxygen content of 19.5% - 23.5%. The upper boundery of this definition is in consideration of fire fighters and the presumed hazard that might result from use of oxygen enriched air or pure oxygen, say if a leak developed while fighting a fire. To keep things tidy, oxygen "safe" criteria were taken to apply to anything above that number regardless of application including pressurized cylinders which must be treated differently due to the emerging practice of defining anything above 23.5% as "oxygen". Otherwise, this somewhat coarse definition would not appear consistent. The CGA have no special knowledge of the fire safety or lack thereof with respect to diver use nor do the diver groups like ANDI. Now, Grade E defines air as containing no more than 22% oxygen and that number could just as well have been applied but Grade D air was in general use by fire fighters at the time. Their systems were generally only capable of this lower grade so the loose definition of "air" carried through, eg, it stuck. Some other govt agencies and diver schools have adopted the 23.5% rule as a way of circling the wagons. They were encouraged to do this by US Divers (Aqualung) which presented information claiming that they could start a fire in scuba gear with 40% mix. The data were never released because they don't exist, IMO. At the time, USD may have thought that they could make some loose change by selling green/yellow regulators at a premium price. Also, there is the matter of insurance rates. Private outfits like ANDI cannot present an appearance of being cavalier with diver safety, not in front of a judge, anyway. If a related matter should come to trial it would be advantageous to them if they could state that their teaching methods met the most conservative standard.
 
Last edited:
I put a different interpretation on USDs original nitrox offerings and rational - I think Air Liquid did its homework, a bit overcautiously perhaps, as behoves a leader in the compressed gas world, and made a legitimate attempt to come up with some products that they felt were really safe and not just maybe-adequate - remember, the X-valve they came up with is the predecessor of their new EN 144-3:2003 valve, which is the first scuba valve I can recall to be sold as suitable for 100%. I also recall seeing a publication giving some details of how Air Liquide did the tests, so the results were not entirely secret or non-existant.
Its intersting that the Luxfer take great care to point out that the OSHA document cited doesn't include recreational divers. No surprise! - no federal regulations do.So the suits can argue all they want about 23.5, 25, or 40, but the rest of us can go diving, any way we like.

Have you seen those "Gravity - it's not just a good idea, its the LAW" tee shirts? Maybe we need one for O2 pragmatists - "The 40% Rule. It's not a rule, it's just a good idea".
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

Back
Top Bottom