Tel-Aviv to Sharm

[String]

Also, Israeli dive ops need to see and review your "stamped" log

Are they really that rearded? What agency in the world requirs stamped logs as proof of diving!

 

[Jai Bar]

Are they really that rearded? What agency in the world requirs stamped logs as proof of diving!

It is not related to any specific agency.

Israel is probably one of the only countries operating under a "scuba-diving law".
It is not some local regulations like the ones in Egypt and in many other countries, but a law passed in parliament some 30 years ago.

The law states many things starting from forbidding solo dives, stating what equipment scuba divers must have during a dive, and goes on and on with lots of sections on different aspects of scuba divers, clubs, instructors, policies etc.

Amongst the various sections, the law requires that a scuba diver has a valid insurance- and proof of diving within the last six months.

Failing to prove that one has dived in past 6 months must be followed by a guided dive in which they ask the diver to show basic skills (remove mask, find regulator, bla bla bla).

Now, it is open to interpretations of the dive club operator if a logbook without a "stamp" is valid or not. In some places they pass a logbook signed only by a buddy, others may even do with a written statement in which one swears (with or without bible ) that he has at least one dive in the last 6 months, others will be strict about a "real stamp" from a dive club or known guide.

Problem is, that there is also law enforcement authorities, which may close a dive center for a certain amount of time, harangue the owner with lots of interrogations, ask him to bring papers in order to re-open the club's licensing, they may do audits and check all the club's papers, check with over zealousness minuscule details etc etc, so many places they don't want to deal with them authorities and prefer to ask the divers to show a "real stamp- or pay real money". It is easier to deal with a diver than with authorities that may shut off your business.

It looks to me that in Egypt it is taking a similar course with all that "black listings" of dive club operators mentioned here in the board (probably many cases personal vendettas against clubs who didn't pay a certain fee?), local regulations stating that only "guided dives allowed"- that's the way it started in Israel.

So Israel has been retarded for 30 years, her neighbors are catching up. Especially when there are a few incidents/accidents in a row, then it is easier to use public opinion to add more laws and more regulations...

 

[String]

Just another reason to never visit Israel then. As well as everything else the diving laws are completely idiotic and non-sensical. Maybe CDWS modelled themselves on Israel!

 

[Jai Bar]

Just another reason to never visit Israel then. As well as everything else the diving laws are completely idiotic and non-sensical. Maybe CDWS modelled themselves on Israel!

On the opposite. I think you should visit and see for yourself if you approve of something or not. Feel free to come over for a weekend- you'll find dive sites inferior to the ones you know (by far), but also surprised to find things you won't see farther south. And there are lots of surprises. I'd be happy to dive with you.


Myself, I don't like this type of laws, I think they are inadequate and irrelevant for the 21st century but I can understand the reasoning that brought them to existence- a series of accidents (*all* of them in Sinai, most of them in the Blue Hole, by the way...), no supervising whatsoever over dive operators (quality of air? compressor maintenance? gear quality? etc) and the feeling that "without any supervision there are going to be lots of accidents"..

Are there less diving accidents because these laws exist? Hard to tell..

So in the late 70s the time was ripe, a few diving accidents in Sinai and the absence of local standards in the diving industry made a scuba diving law possible. In this century, it could be also from economical interests too, and I suspect you are beginning to see it too (CDWS?)

 

[Jorgy]

First I don't have a stamped log.........

My log is my Suunto Diver Manager printouts in many 3-ring binders

I cleared this with the op before I went to Eilat, I just took my last 10 dives with me........the dive op looked at them and said it was OK.........

They explained that a stamped log was the only way to "prove" that you had been diving........and it had to be within the last 6 months........

I asked what if I only did shore dives with friends, without the evolvement of a shop, the girl behind the counter said she didn't know, in Israel everyone dives with a club via a shop............

They also kept the C-Card, DAN insurance card and "log" (along with credit card info) in an envelope for each diver, these items were returned to you when you were done diving..........

When I first contacted them, this is an excerpt of what they sent me.......

"You will need to pre-book and bring with you:

Your passport
Dive card
Log book

If you have DAN Dive insurance please bring it with you"

To me is wasn't a big deal, I just thought is was cumbersome, had I not cleared it in advance and brought the 10 dives it could have become an issue...........

M

 

[String]

They explained that a stamped log was the only way to "prove" that you had been diving........and it had to be within the last 6 months........

So for the majority of divers that dont dive with a shop or dont keep a log or get anything stamped cant prove they've been diving. Or someone that spent Ž£1 on a stamp can "prove" dives even if they havent dived.

I asked what if I only did shore dives with friends, without the evolvement of a shop, the girl behind the counter said she didn't know, in Israel everyone dives with a club via a shop............

In Israel maybe but certainly not elsewhere in the world.

 

[Jorgy]

I agree with you.........

Give me 2 hours, some ink, pens and a toy stamp kit and I can give you a dive log worthy of John Chatterton.......

It is total rubbish as dive logs are self documented and maintained.........

C'est la vie.............

M

 

[String]

On the opposite. I think you should visit and see for yourself if you approve of something or not. Feel free to come over for a weekend- you'll find dive sites inferior to the ones you know (by far), but also surprised to find things you won't see farther south. And there are lots of surprises. I'd be happy to dive with you.

Ive got no doubt the diving is worth doing however i detest pointless regulation that acheives absolutely nothing.

a series of accidents (*all* of them in Sinai, most of them in the Blue Hole, by the way...),

Actually several incidents further south of Sinai. Blue hole ones also by dive centres that WERE regulated by similar rules. You can have all the regulation in the world but if someone wants to be stupid underwater it will have no effect at all.

no supervising whatsoever over dive operators (quality of air? compressor maintenance? gear quality? etc) and the feeling that "without any supervision there are going to be lots of accidents"..

CDWS supervises all of that (along with many other completely worthless things). Not one accident has happened due to dive centres not having adequate provisions - they're all related to the individual diver messing up.


Israels laws do nothing but disqualify perfectly good divers from diving while allowing divers who may not be adequately qualified to dive.

I may possibly go to Eilat although im unsure yet

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[Jorgy]

Night dive at the caves was pretty impressive............

That is a local Eilat dive site, watched an Octopus try and eat my dive buddies camera strobe.....

Octopi light up like hot air balloons when the strobe fires......trying everything to get it to let go........

I will never forget that.................

M

 

[Jai Bar]

Actually several incidents further south of Sinai. Blue hole ones also by dive centres that WERE regulated by similar rules. You can have all the regulation in the world but if someone wants to be stupid underwater it will have no effect at all.

I was speaking of diving accidents from the early 70's, which were followed by regulations and law. Today, there are other laws and regulations, but as you said- and I completely agree with you- there are no laws against human stupidity and there are no dangerous dives sites, there are dangerous divers.

Israels laws do nothing but disqualify perfectly good divers from diving while allowing divers who may not be adequately qualified to dive.

Actually it is the opposite. Diving quality in Israel is as good as any. By the way, in Israel most divers can dive freely without requirements for guided dives only (like the rules prevalent in Sinai)

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