"Technical." Dive Computers.

[boulderjohn]

I will describe two events from Andy's ScubaBoard past. I will not offer opinions on them, just relate them. Here is number on--the second will follow.

About a decade ago, a group of instructors, including many from ScubaBoard, got together and published an article in the PADI professional journal (Undersea Journal) advocating teaching OW classes with the students neutrally buoyant and in horizontal trim from the very start. One of PADI's top level leaders, Karl Shreeves, was a key co-author, working with me for about a month to create a final draft. Andy argued incessantly that teaching that way was a violation of standards, and anyone who followed the advice published by PADI in its professional journal would be expelled for violating standards. The arguments on this raged for many months on ScubaBoard.

Here are some of his positions:

• The fact that the article was published by PADI in its professional journal (the magazine issued to its instructors) was meaningless. Andy said anyone can get articles published there, and PADI will publish them without any editing, even if it totally contradicted PADI philosophy and standards.
• The fact that the article was co-written by PADI Technical Director Karl Shreeves was meaningless. Karl was just giving his opinion, and there is no reason his opinion would have to match PADI's.
• PADI headquarters was contacted for a response, and that response said in clear and precise terms that the standards did not in any way prevent instructors from teaching students while they are neutrally buoyant. Andy's response to that was that when you write to PADI headquarters with a question, the response you get is simply the opinion of whoever answers your question and may totally contradict PADI philosophy and standards.
• Challenged on this, he specifically said that he is a greater authority on the meaning of PADI standards than anyone in PADI headquarters.

 

[boulderjohn]

Here is a summary of a second ScubaBoard discussion:

Andy argued that PADI standards prevented instructors from adding anything to a course or deviating in any way from the suggestions for instructional technique provided in its Guide to Teaching. Many instructors replied, saying that it was not true. The argument followed essentially the same pattern as the discussion above. Here are two highlights:

• A representative of PADI headquarters said in clear terms that the Guide to Teaching is a set of suggestions and nothing in it should be considered a required standard. Andy said that statement from headquarters was just someone's opinion. That opinion was wrong and he was right.
• In every issue of PADI's professional journal, PADI CEO and President Drew Richardson writes an introduction. One of those was produced in the discussion. In it, Richardson focused on the benefits instructors provide with the things they add to the skeleton of the course. Andy responded that Richardson was just giving his personal opinion, and in this case his personal opinion was wrong because it contradicted Andy's personal opinion. He said that any instructor who did what PADI's CEO and President said to do would be expelled from PADI.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

@boulderjohn

Come on. Show us his actual statements and not your interpretation of them.

Plus people do change over time.

No one said he isn’t stubborn. And some yahoo in this thread said he’d have started World War III if he served in the diplomatic corps.

 

[boulderjohn]

@boulderjohn

Come on. Show us his actual statements and not your interpretation of them.

Plus people do change over time.

No one said he isn’t stubborn. And some yahoo in this thread said he’d have started World War III if he served in the diplomatic corps.

Those discussions took place over many months and in many threads. They were horribly tiresome. The argument would take place in one thread, and a host of people would refute his position. Then it would crop up again later, as if the previous discussion had not taken place. Some of that previous host would respond. Over time, one person after another would drop out of the discussion, exhausted from the need to repeat the same things over and over and over again. Eventually it was pretty much just Rob Turner (Diver0001) and I doing the refuting.

It would take many, many hours of research to find everything.

Andy was supported in these discussions by two people in particular, DCBC and beanojones. That may help you in your search.

Pretty much everyone who participated in the writing of the neutral buoyancy article and who participated in ScubaBoard has left ScubaBoard. I believe I am the only one left. One of them is, I believe, still a friend of yours--Peter Guy. IIRC, he was the one who produced the article by Drew Richardson mentioned above. You can check with him for his memories.

EDIT: I put Rob Turner's user name in parentheses above, and it autocorrected to Diver0001. That is because when he left ScubaBoard (in a real rage), he demanded that his existence on ScubaBoard be scrubbed in accordance with European law regarding internet privacy rights.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Those discussions took place over many months and in many threads. They were horribly tiresome. The argument would take place in one thread, and a host of people would refute his position. Then it would crop up again later, as if the previous discussion had not taken place. Some of that previous host would respond. Over time, one person after another would drop out of the discussion, exhausted from the need to repeat the same things over and over and over again. Eventually it was pretty much just Rob Turner (Diver0001) and I doing the refuting.

It would take many, many hours of research to find everything.

Andy was supported in these discussions by two people in particular, DCBC and beanojones. That may help you in your search.

Pretty much everyone who participated in the writing of the neutral buoyancy article and who participated in ScubaBoard has left ScubaBoard. I believe I am the only one left. One of them is, I believe, still a friend of yours--Peter Guy. IIRC, he was the one who produced the article by Drew Richardson mentioned above. You can check with him for his memories.

EDIT: I put Rob Turner's user name in parentheses above, and it autocorrected to Diver0001. That is because when he left ScubaBoard (in a real rage), he demanded that his existence on ScubaBoard be scrubbed in accordance with European law regarding internet privacy rights.

Hey, no talking about "he who is not to be named".

Let's take this to PM.

 

[Subcooled]

Being a lone wolf saves one from much grief