TDI VS PADI as a path to 130 feet plus.

[matt_unique]

I only have experience with the TDI courses. I llike the structure of the TDI courses and how it allows me to incrementally advance. I am building experience in the <160' range on leaned Nitrox for back gas. I wanted this experience under my belt before I moved into a trimix certification. 160' is my absolute limit on leaned Nitrox. Anything deeper will be on trimix.

You don't necessarily need to travel for tech training. You should learn to deco dive in the same environment you will be doing your dives. You will need a pile of gear. You can use your 30CF pony bottle as a deco bottle for entry level deco dives. You should be in doubles but you *can* use a single HP 120 with H or V-valve in the TDI Deco Procedures class for example. You will figure out pretty quickly that this is not a sufficient system though.

I think the min requirements for all courses except OW (with all agencies) are way too low. I think the TDI Deco Procedures courses should require a minimum of 100 dives with a min of 30 dives deeper than 100' in the environment you will be deco diving for example. They only require 25 dives which is just scary. It really comes down to the instructor setting their own minimum requirements and careful evaluation. This is perhaps another thread.

For you I suggest you complete Nitrox (if you have not already), get comfortable drysuit diving, and get comfortable with NDL dives deeper than 100' prior to taking the first step into tech diving.

--Matt

 

[Hyper-limits]

I think the min requirements for all courses except OW (with all agencies) are way too low. I think the TDI Deco Procedures courses should require a minimum of 100 dives with a min of 30 dives deeper than 100' in the environment you will be deco diving for example. They only require 25 dives which is just scary. It really comes down to the instructor setting their own minimum requirements and careful evaluation. This is perhaps another thread.
--Matt

Totally agree, Some diver show up on a technical course with the minimum of 25 dives and out of that number 10+ are training dives so he may have 15 OW dives on his own and he's doing a deco procedure course. IMO that ridiculous.

 

[steve2281]

I only have experience with the TDI courses. I llike the structure of the TDI courses and how it allows me to incrementally advance.

--Matt

Matt, can you buy and use 100% O2 with the TDI Adv nitrox cert.???? If not, what does the Adv nitrox qualify you to do?? Does it take Deco Prod in addition to Adv Nitrox to use 100% on dives less than 130'?????? thanks steve

 

[Hyper-limits]

Matt, can you buy and use 100% O2 with the TDI Adv nitrox cert.???? If not, what does the Adv nitrox qualify you to do?? Does it take Deco Prod in addition to Adv Nitrox to use 100% on dives less than 130'?????? thanks steve

The TDI advance Nitrox course qualified you for the use of 40% nitrox and above including pure O2. You don't need to take the Deco Procedure course to use O2.
But usually the only reason you need O2 is for deco so they kind of go together that why most instructor will teach the ADV Nitrox/Deco Procedures all at once.

 

[matt_unique]

Matt, can you buy and use 100% O2 with the TDI Adv nitrox cert.???? If not, what does the Adv nitrox qualify you to do?? Does it take Deco Prod in addition to Adv Nitrox to use 100% on dives less than 130'?????? thanks steve

As Hyper said above "yes". A regular Nitrox cert trains you/allows you to buy Nitrox up to 40% and Advanced Nitrox trains you/allows you to buy up to 100% 02. You would not be able to buy 100% 02 without the Advanced Nitrox cert. Deco Procedures is not a prerequisite for Advanced Nitrox but the benefits of Advanced Nitrox go hand in hand with deco diving/deco procedures course.

You can use 100% 02 on any dive (as long as you breath it no deeper than 20') but the real benefit is to shave off required deco time. The difference in required deco time is significantly greater when you are not using a high % of EAN for deco.

--Matt

 

[steve2281]

As Hyper said above "yes". A regular Nitrox cert trains you/allows you to buy Nitrox up to 40% and Advanced Nitrox trains you/allows you to buy up to 100% 02. You would not be able to buy 100% 02 without the Advanced Nitrox cert. Deco Procedures is not a prerequisite for Advanced Nitrox but the benefits of Advanced Nitrox go hand in hand with deco diving/deco procedures course.

--Matt

Interesting, I think the IANTD Adv Nitrox only trains in the use of up to 50%; quite a difference. Of course, I know the thread was comparing TDI to PADI, but still worth considering if that info is correct.

 

[O-ring]

If you've only taken ADV and Nitrox you need to probably take the Rescue course along with an O2 provider course of some sort. You might even want to go ahead with Divemaster before Tech.

Then,
If you are interested in Technical Diving; go talk to local people in your area. Interview some instructors and find one that you are compatible with. Sitting around comparing PADI vs. TDI vs. Naui vs GUE vs IANTD won't get you anywhere. A good instructor can take any outline and make a good class out of it. Find an instructor who has done and is doing the dives. Then look into an Advanced Nitrox class and take it from there. Do you dive a Drysuit? You'll need one and you'd better be very comfortible in it and with it's use.

There are lots of very good instructors in FL and you aren't that far from NC wreck country. Heck, we've considered flying to NC from Alaska to dive wrecks.

Don't be in a big hurry, 65 dives might feel like alot but when you are talking decompression, mixed gases, double tanks plus deco bottles, drysuits, reels, bags, spare this, spare that, 65 dives ain't nothing.

Most of all are you ready to spend a boatload of cash? cause you're about to. Just gas for a single dive can cost $100 or more.

Typical basic equipment list:
Double Tanks , Manifold, Bands,
2 High Performance Regs,
BP/W
Can Light
Argon Bottle an Reg
Deco Bottles and a reg for each one. plus rigging
Drysuit
Reel
Spool
Lift bags
SMB
etc. etc. so on and so forth, the list is endless. You can spend $10,000 without blinking an eye.

It all sounds really romantic but in reality, it's alot of hard work and very expensive not to mention cold, dark, and easy to screw up and get yourself killed.

Dave

Dave brings up a lot of good points that are often overlooked when someone considers the road toward this type of diving. It is expensive. Not just like "scuba is expensive", but ridiculously expensive. It's not unheard of to be jumping in the water with $15k worth of gear on, not to mention spending somewhere in the neighborhood of $10k annually if you do it relatively often. The other important point he brings up, IMO, is the need for emergency first responder type of training. Our group made this a requirement this year and our minimum standards are First Aid, CPR, and o2 administration (we did TDI's CPROX class and DAN's o2 provider course as a group). Most of these types of dive sites are well off the beaten path and your dive plan should include appropriately trained individuals, first aid kits, and a healthy supply of o2 with the proper hardware to deal with conscious as well as unconscious divers. When you are 50-100 miles offshore, it may be quite a while before professional medical attention is able to get to you, so your team should be fully capable of dealing with an emergency should one arise.

 

[Quetzal]

One thing that wasn't really mentioned here is that you can take a DSAT Discover Tec program. It will introduce you to the equipment and the knowledge needed to become a tec diver. Plus, if you have a good instructor, you can try out the equipment in the pool. After that experience, you can then decide if it is right for you. This can save you a lot of time and $$$ in case tec diving isn't your thing. I am currently starting the DSAT Tec Rec Deep diver course. I didn't chose the training agency, I chose the instructor. I waited till I had around 250 logged dives before I started thinking about tec training. I thought long and hard on it for about a year, and 100 more dives later I decided to do it. So get VERY, VERY, VERY comfortable with your skills and the types of diving you do (i.e. overhead environment, etc.)

One thing that akscubainst didn't mention in his equipment list was that there is an extra cost to maintaining O2 clean equipment. I pay $50 just to have my O2 deco tank cleaned a year. Plus I have to add an additional $75 per regulator to get it O2 cleaned on it's annual service. This can also add up your annual expenses. So keep that in mind as well.

One thing that wasn't really mentioned here is that you can take a DSAT Discover Tec program.
Yeah my prospective future instructor told me about this. He also offered for me to just hang out with them while they are diving deep. He said that for example they need someone to be with divers who are in deco above 130' who have no deco requirement so if the divers deco-ing need anything the assistant can get to the surface and get it for them. I am interested and think I can learn alot just from hanging literally and figuratively w/ them.
I had a gut feeling that the instructor was more important than the agency I just wanted some reasurance of this and by and large thats what it looks like I have recieved.
I also think that being around this instructor will let me know whether or not I want to trust him w/ my life. I especially take this more seriously as we are especting our 1st child in June.

 

[Doubles]

First I will say that I am not an expert on any of this, in fact I am in the middle of my Adv Nitrox/Deco procedures training and loving every minute of it. Agencies are like opinions, there are plenty to choose from. Agencies have there differences, they have to or they wouldnt be a different agency, but at the end of the day they cover the same water! It's an inherently dangerous (but fun) sport.

To me the instructor is everything. It's also nice to get training from more than one instructor. Nothing like getting second set of eyes to help with your dive training. I use 2 instructors ( one for tech and one for non-tech), and have been extremely satisified with both. I trust my tech instructor with my life everytime I get my gear on. I really don't care what agenices name will be on my C card. I want to know that I am going to learn all that I need too, and that my instructor will make me "earn" that card or tell me to find another hobby. I also want to have fun at the same time.

Visit this web site, http://www.genesisdiving.com/, Rick is on the board here, look him up, you might be to far away to have him as an instructor, but he's a great person to ask a few questions.

And yes, start saving your money now. Seems the older we get, the more expensive our toys/hobbies get.

Cheers