Tank Boots, Boats and DIR

[Derek S]

I'm not saying that steel tanks don't have a place. I'm not saying that it's an absolute. I am saying that I've weighed out all the option, and after talking to many divers who dive the waters I do and do the same dives I do, that AL80s make the best choice.

I'm a big guy (read - needs more lead than the average GUE trained diver - but working on that), but even I find that the negative weighting issues of AL tanks don't cause me any issues.

Bob Sherwood gave a good explanation to us NEUE members a while back. It pretty much sums up the way I feel about it as well. Of course, people hear what they want to hear and will do what they want to, so YMMV. I kinda find it odd though that I've got 4 responses here in the DIR forum criticizing my post. Shoot an e-mail to anyone on the GUE training board, I know they're going to tell you the same.

For some reason this tank issues seems to rub people the wrong way. Not sure why that is, but remember here, we all need to get along.

To clear the decks, as the NEUE team standard, AL 80's ARE the tanks of choice for ocean (or other OW) diving.

People make these choice for different reasons. some are not comfortable with the amount of gas supplied by the 80's. an additional 45 cft tends to cover this ground. I personally have never felt limited by 154' cft of gas.

There are two way of increasing gas distance, one is to dive bigger tanks, the other is to hit the gym, and practice your game. The first is much easier. Some need the additional negative weight associated with steel vs neutral/negative of AL. Two options, pay for the steel, or hit the gym and exchange lipid for muscle mass. Again, one is easier.

For us here in the NE one of the biggest issues we have had to face is that people have been diving really large steel tanks that are the farthest thing from a balanced rig. In order to give them comfort of adequate gas, most rarely hit the gym. ( Please understand that there are exceptions).

The new E-7's are NEW (Bob is referring to the PST 100s). These tanks were not even an option till fairly recently. there are now some tanks that offer similar characteristics of the AL, and are balanced. I am cautious when recommending steel over AL, because people hear what they want, and the word on the street will turn into "GUE says steel tanks in ocean are fine", then out come the divers with 120's, 130's ect. (no balance).

Many of you have been there when people have unsuccessfully tried to swim these off the bottom. If you have not seen this, trust me, watching someone see the surface, but not being able to get there and eventually giving up and sinking towards the bottom will leave a lasting impression.

Hope this clears up the issues.

 

[StSomewhere]

Live and learn. I thought that was only an issue for wetsuits and doubles.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Not too long ago GI3 made the argument that double Al 80s were preferred over twin 104s for OW Ocean diving because of 1) exposures in a potentially quickly changing ocean environment should be limited and that this negates the need for the extra gas volume of the bigger cylinders and 2) Al 80s are lighter and easier/safer to handle on a rolling deck.

Does he no longer recommend 80s over 104s for this type of diving?

 

[do it easy]

Aside from having the same gear, why do the divers have to have the same SIZE tanks? I can understand configuring it the same way- left post, right post, etc, but why does the tank size matter for gear standardization?

 

[onfloat]

Ease of dive planning. If everyone has the same tanks then all the math is the same for gas planning purposes and then just worry about the diver with the highest SAC rate to determine rock bottom, turn pressure, etc....

 

[Ben_ca]

Derek as far as the AL vs ST discussion this is the first I've heard of that... Let's save that for another thread.

Easy... Ditto on OnFloat's response... Makes Tank factors and other scuba math easier... Check out the article on Quest by Delia on Scuba math.

 

[do it easy]

I would think that you would have to do all the math regardless of tank size or SAC rate. Also, this is done on the surface, so you have time to work this out.

I was wondering if there are any reasons different tank sizes would make a difference while actually diving?

 

[onfloat]

but you only have to do it once. When briefing the dive every one will have the same pressure bench marks, based on the highest SAC rate.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Interesting ... out here virtually every DIR diver dives double PST 104's.

This is the first I've heard that they don't balance out well ... for the past four years, all I've been hearing ... and from several GUE instructors at that ... is that the reason DIR divers choose 104's is because of their superb balance characteristics.

I wonder if this isn't another one of those east-coast DIR vs west-coast DIR issues ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MaxBottomtime]

GI once said the reason for the no boots rule was that he was seeing too many Florida cave divers standing their tanks up on the picnic benches, where they risked falling over. I got tired of having my steel doubles slipping, falling and shifting while trying to put them on while sitting on the gunnel of a boat. I put the boots back on. I guess that makes me a stroke, but I don't really care.