tangential issues from a mishap thread

[Thalassamania]

...
My nephew's mother in law died in an AOW course from a massive heart attack at depth. I don't blame the instructor for that. In the 2008 DAN fatality report, 3 of the 4 training-related deaths were due to cardiac events. I don't see how it can be possible to hit zero unless we can find a way to ensure that students stop having heart attacks.

I am sorry for your family's loss.

I think that real medical screenings combined with watermanship testing might go a long way toward reducing medical problems. I was given to understand, by Thomas Noguchi, that to differentiate between a "massive hear attack" and an AGE that blocks the coronary artery requires cracking the chest underwater, something that most coroners don't know and are unprepared to accomplish, so 99% of the time they label it, "massive heart attack."

 

[Hawkwood]

I'm beginning to believe that the fundamental problem here is that dive professionals in Alberta don't how to perform a rescue ... much less teach one.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Ouch! Geeze, and I jumped on coldwatercanada for generalizing.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Ouch! Geeze, and I jumped on coldwatercanada for generalizing.

Out of context since the split ... my impression is that the three people involved in the rescue attempt were all dive professionals ... none of whom thought to attempt inflating the victim's BCD.

How does that happen? That's taught in a basic Rescue class ... surely the people who teach those classes should know what to do ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[coldwatercanada]

i love how they let us keep fighting just not on there regular thread

No one knows why they didnt inflate the bcd the rumor i heard was that this happened at the end of the dive the three pros have very little air left and used a stage bottle to inflate over oral inflation i dont know if this is true or if it is why they choose that, i also dont know why they didnt or if they did pull weights

 

[flots am]

Well they do dive the stern on AL80 It happened a couple of weeks ago.

That's a cold, deep, dark wreck and aside from the shallowest parts is no place to take divers unless the divers know they're ready. Freeflows are a common occurance and need to be planned for, and OOA needs to be eliminated as even a possibility. The only way I'd do the stern on an 80 is if I had two of them.

All these incidents that end in panic and injury or death are really staring to piss me off because they're completely avoidable.

Do you know what qualifies a diver for a 150' dive? A bunch of recent, successful, safe 130' dives, and the training and equipment to know that pretty much whatever happens is going to be a snooze or at worst, a minor annoyance. Not the mere presence of a "professional"

flots.

 

[elan]

That's a cold, deep, dark wreck and aside from the shallowest parts is no place to take divers unless the divers know they're ready. Freeflows are a common occurance and need to be planned for, and OOA needs to be eliminated as even a possibility. The only way I'd do the stern on an 80 is if I had two of them.

All these incidents that end in panic and injury or death are really staring to piss me off because they're completely avoidable.

Do you know what qualifies a diver for a 150' dive? A bunch of recent, successful, safe 130' dives, and the training and equipment to know that pretty much whatever happens is going to be a snooze or at worst, a minor annoyance. Not the mere presence of a "professional"

flots.

The issue is that most of the students do not know what they are going into... And instructors just tell them "you will be fine" ...


One of my former dive buddies has described how he went on the stern at 135 and started "going back to the boat" when it was time to turn.... Some "tech diver" with doubles and reels stopped him and pointed to the opposite direction... It turned out that in fact he was heading the opposite way into the bay... He was damn pretty narced...

I stopped diving with him though as he was doing crazy things...

 

[RTee]

12 pages of interesting reading and I have to admit I do not know necessarily more than when I first started reading the opening post on the subject. While there is nothing wrong by just stating what you know...like a diving accident occured at such and such place it seems that things derailed rather quickly when people start posting hearsay and rumors. If my memory serves me right a very similar thread covering a diving incident in a quarry somewhere in Ontario started in a very similar way two or three months ago...with just about the same end result.

 

[Crush]

12 pages of interesting reading and I have to admit I do not know necessarily more than when I first started reading the opening post on the subject. While there is nothing wrong by just stating what you know...like a diving accident occured at such and such place it seems that things derailed rather quickly when people start posting hearsay and rumors. If my memory serves me right a very similar thread covering a diving incident in a quarry somewhere in Ontario started in a very similar way two or three months ago...with just about the same end result.

The cynic in me agrees with you. Change would be brought in if enough loud people cared. However, most don't dive, and even amongst those who dive most don't care. This leads to an under-resourcing of fatality investigations (including the inability to subpoena or compel testimony) which leads to findings which won't survive scrutiny in a court (at best) or are pure conjecture (at worst). Given the mediocre (at best) or faulty conclusions (at worst) based upon inadequate evidence, who would want to stick their neck out by publishing such drivel. This is not to say that there are no clear, obvious instances of negligence. But, given the under-resourcing, I guess that it is our own fault (i.e., the dive community).

 

[coldwatercanada]

the other thing were not talking about is what if they lied on their medical!!!

 

[coldwatercanada]

the other thing were not talking about is what if they lied on their medical!!! its all hearsay! What ever we can argee about padi or ssi or what was done right and what wasnt all i know is hearsay doesnt help. . . and all we can do is realize that anything can happen to anyone!