Talk me *OUT* of a BP/W setup

[yojace]

Being over weighted by only six pounds is not that critical. If I am neutral on the bottom of a pool, I can easily breathe another 10 pounds neutral and have picked up as much as 16. In fact, I require all male students to pick up 6 pounds and breathe themselves neutral before they graduate from confined water. Women have to manage at least 4, but many can pick up 10. It's just not that much.

Doc I don't understand what you mean by "picking up" weight. Do you mean physically picking up and holding onto weights while remaining neutrally buoyant at a certain depth?

 

[The Chairman]

Doc I don't understand what you mean by "picking up" weight. Do you mean physically picking up and holding onto weights while remaining neutrally buoyant at a certain depth?

I mean just that. This is a pool exercise that I use as their graduation ceremony to open water training. I lay out six to ten 2 pound weights on the bottom of the pool. Students have been working on ascending and descending using only their breath already. So on the third descent, they swim over to the weights, pick one up and then breath themselves neutral. No, they don't get to use their BC for this. They keep picking up weights and breathing themselves neutral until they can no longer be neutral. Women have to be able to deal with at least 4 pounds and men have to deal with at least 6 pounds in order to pass. They often exceed this minimum. If you can accomplish these two skills (descents/ascents on breathing and picking up weight using breathing) then you have mastered everything you need to keep neutral while diving. BTW, I've added a new exercise as of late... we play underwater Jenga. The student and I hover and build towers with those two pound weights. Each floor takes three weights: two sides and a roof. The higher you get the more unstable it gets. When it falls, we laugh and start over again. It's fun and it trains students to stay in one place while dealing with minor weight changes.

 

[RainPilot]

I mean just that. This is a pool exercise that I use as their graduation ceremony to open water training. I lay out six to ten 2 pound weights on the bottom of the pool. Students have been working on ascending and descending using only their breath already. So on the third descent, they swim over to the weights, pick one up and then breath themselves neutral. No, they don't get to use their BC for this. They keep picking up weights and breathing themselves neutral until they can no longer be neutral. Women have to be able to deal with at least 4 pounds and men have to deal with at least 6 pounds in order to pass. They often exceed this minimum. If you can accomplish these two skills (descents/ascents on breathing and picking up weight using breathing) then you have mastered everything you need to keep neutral while diving. BTW, I've added a new exercise as of late... we play underwater Jenga. The student and I hover and build towers with those two pound weights. Each floor takes three weights: two sides and a roof. The higher you get the more unstable it gets. When it falls, we laugh and start over again. It's fun and it trains students to stay in one place while dealing with minor weight changes.

Thanks Pete, yet another tool in my toolbox, I'll give you the credit....

 

[ronscuba]

I mean just that. This is a pool exercise that I use as their graduation ceremony to open water training. I lay out six to ten 2 pound weights on the bottom of the pool. Students have been working on ascending and descending using only their breath already. So on the third descent, they swim over to the weights, pick one up and then breath themselves neutral. No, they don't get to use their BC for this. They keep picking up weights and breathing themselves neutral until they can no longer be neutral. Women have to be able to deal with at least 4 pounds and men have to deal with at least 6 pounds in order to pass. They often exceed this minimum. If you can accomplish these two skills (descents/ascents on breathing and picking up weight using breathing) then you have mastered everything you need to keep neutral while diving. BTW, I've added a new exercise as of late... we play underwater Jenga. The student and I hover and build towers with those two pound weights. Each floor takes three weights: two sides and a roof. The higher you get the more unstable it gets. When it falls, we laugh and start over again. It's fun and it trains students to stay in one place while dealing with minor weight changes.

An extra 6lbs ? That's challenging. I guess you have to adjust the amount of air you keep in your lungs ?

 

[Johanan]

@filmguy123, you asked for an argument against bp/w? I didn't read the entire thread, maybe somebody has mentioned it already, but here it is: forget about bp/w, go sidemount. Since I got into SM, my bp/w hasn't been wet even once in three years.

 

[stuartv]

This thread is over 3 months old. I think filmguy already made his choice....

 

[The Chairman]

An extra 6lbs ? That's challenging. I guess you have to adjust the amount of air you keep in your lungs ?

Of course it's challenging... that's the point. In order to understand buoyancy, you have to be able to choose the point you pause in your breathing cycle. No, not hold your breath: but pause. You also have to learn how to take a super breath but not hold your breath. I have managed 16 pounds on a good day, but on a bad day I can only do 10 or 12.

 

[RainPilot]

@filmguy123, you asked for an argument against bp/w? I didn't read the entire thread, maybe somebody has mentioned it already, but here it is: forget about bp/w, go sidemount. Since I got into SM, my bp/w hasn't been wet even once in three years.

He is coming to visit me, I will have him converted to side mount before he leaves I promise.

 

[yojace]

I mean just that. This is a pool exercise that I use as their graduation ceremony to open water training. I lay out six to ten 2 pound weights on the bottom of the pool. Students have been working on ascending and descending using only their breath already. So on the third descent, they swim over to the weights, pick one up and then breath themselves neutral. No, they don't get to use their BC for this. They keep picking up weights and breathing themselves neutral until they can no longer be neutral. Women have to be able to deal with at least 4 pounds and men have to deal with at least 6 pounds in order to pass. They often exceed this minimum. If you can accomplish these two skills (descents/ascents on breathing and picking up weight using breathing) then you have mastered everything you need to keep neutral while diving. BTW, I've added a new exercise as of late... we play underwater Jenga. The student and I hover and build towers with those two pound weights. Each floor takes three weights: two sides and a roof. The higher you get the more unstable it gets. When it falls, we laugh and start over again. It's fun and it trains students to stay in one place while dealing with minor weight changes.

Thanks Doc. I get it. I'd even like to try the Jenga game in open water. I'm a photographer/videographer and I've had to do some creative maneuvering to stay in position to get my shot. Your Jenga game could help me advance the necessary skills.

 

[yojace]

I see this point mentioned surprisingly often, and I just don't get it. Sometimes I think all the discussion on SB about BP/W makes it sound more complicated than it is. There are actually fewer decisions to make about a BP/W than there are about a jacket BC. Steel or aluminum is not a big difference--something like 3-4 lbs. In most cases, either will do fine. Buy steel if you need the weight, aluminum if you don't. Even if you buy the one that isn't optimal, it's only a 3-4 lb. "mistake," and you could always buy another later. Does one buy a single-tank adapter (STA)? If one dives a single tank, and the wing isn't one of the few that have a built-in single-tank stabilizer, then YES, you need an STA. Hogarthian harness: yes. It works for most people, but modifying it to suit you preferences would not be a huge deal later. How complicated is that?

I can try and put it in perspective as I am on that same fence myself, having come from my first BC, a jacket, to my current 2 back inflates, to contemplating my next move. I have taken many people diving with me, and observed that choosing rental equipment was for them an ordeal. People function at different levels. When I work in hospitals I find many of the staff cannot grasp the easy concept (to me) of using computer programs. Most don't know that CTRL+C = copy, CTRL+V equals paste, etc.(PC), and marvel when I employ these simple time-savers. When I worked at Microsoft, many programmers couldn't understand what it means to have empathy for another person, and the idea of saying "excuse me" when bumping into another person was a completely foreign concept.

With the BC, the required decisions are in the comfort zone of many people, as far fewer need to be made. My first BC required 20 minutes of sales assistance and my own contemplation/comparison to other models. My second BC decision took maybe 5 minutes. I acquired my third in the blink of an eye. As I grew in experience, I found my decisions became more targeted, covered a wider range of choices, and were much more relaxing, even though they required more calculation. The calculation part was the easiest at this time, because I knew why I was calculating, not just filling out numbers in someone else's formula. That gave me confidence. Even still, though one of my two dive buddies was really leaning toward a BP/W and the other already had one, I still couldn't make the mental leap - it hadn't entered my paradigm so for me, it just wasn't a possibility.

I hope I have shed some light on the difficulty in immediately seeing and grasping the advantage of the BP/W.