Take the Nitrox Anti-Fatigue Challenge and post your results here

[idocsteve]

* Nitrox Certified Divers Only * take the Nitrox challenge and post your results here.

Lots of discussion on this board and elsewhere about the supposed "Anti-Fatigue" effect provided by the more common Nitrox mixes, even though it's generally agreed that there is no credible evidence to support the theory that diving Nitrox noticeably decreases post dive fatigue among divers as compared to diving air.

Any reliable scientific study must be "controlled and double blind". In any true scientific experiment, the "control" is the known item and the "variable" is the item being tested. In this case the control is air, and the variable is Nitrox. It is important that the test be "double blind" which means that neither the test taker or the examiner (or anyone present during the test) knows which is the control and which is the variable. This is important to eliminate possible cues even if totally unintended and subconscious. The "placebo" effect is well known and documented, and this must be eliminated or else the test results are not valid.

So divers, when you have the opportunity, do the following:

Have two identically appearing tanks filled, the first with a common Nitrox blend appropriate for the depths of your planned dives, and the second with air.

The diver will verify the blends and will plan the dives including MOD and maximum bottom times using the most limiting factors (depth for Nitrox as per Nitrox PO2 tables and/or computer limits and NDL limits for air as per air tables and/or computer), so that both dives are well within the safe limits for depth and time for both air and the Nitrox mix that was selected.

Verify both mixes and then cover the blend stickers with 2 identical pieces of tape to obscure the readings, and ask another person to randomly label one tank with "1" and the other with "2". Preferably handle the tanks as little as possible at that point forward until after the experiment is completed.

Then go diving, using tank "1" for dive 1, and tank "2" for dive 2, and jot down a written description of how you feel following those two dives, comparing one to the other, and once you have WRITTEN DOWN your subjective results, remove the tapes and confirm which tank contained which blend, then post the subjective results along with the blend used during that dive. Do not under any conditions make any modifications to your subjective analysis once you have been told which dive was done with Nitrox.

Unfortunately it's not going to be possible to eliminate "other variables" that may exist during the dives, but over time there will be an "evening out" of the results and we can see if there is a clear pattern.

Happy diving!

 

[Chris12day]

Noun 1. double-blind procedure - an experimental procedure in which neither the subjects of the experiment nor the persons administering the experiment know the critical aspects of the experiment; "a double-blind procedure is used to guard against both experimenter bias and placebo effects"

 

[scubaflier]

this should not be that complicated. many leading doctors have completed years of study on HYBOT thearpy. you can take a simple blood o2 analizer and check your Blood o2 levels before a dive and then after a dive. HBOT thearpy has been used to treat many ailments for more years than its been used for recreational scuba diving. most treatments only require a partial pressure of 1.3 that equaites to a 12' foot dive on 100% o2 I have been making test dives with different mixes for around 2 months I will release the results soon ( under the study of a research scientist)

 

[Chris12day]

this should not be that complicated. many leading doctors have completed years of study on HYBOT thearpy. you can take a simple blood o2 analizer and check your Blood o2 levels before a dive and then after a dive. HBOT thearpy has been used to treat many ailments for more years than its been used for recreational scuba diving. most treatments only require a partial pressure of 1.3 that equaites to a 12' foot dive on 100% o2 I have been making test dives with different mixes for around 2 months I will release the results soon ( under the study of a research scientist)

The oxygen level in the blood stream is only on factor to "feeling" fatigue. Much more complicated issue.

I have been doing research for over 25 years. I research lipids. Later this year, I will be a Keynote Speaker at a scientific meeting in Cairns, Austrialia.....I get to dive the Great Barrier Reef!

 

[Thalassamania]

This experiment would, at best, give the subjective impressions of divers for single dives. I don't think that anyone is maintaining that the lack of fatigue is identifiable under those circumstances, so the whole suggestion is rather a waste of time and effort.

 

[idocsteve]

The oxygen level in the blood stream is only on factor to "feeling" fatigue. Much more complicated issue.

In fact oxygen level in the bloodstream might not even BE a factor which is why that one factor is being isolated and none of the other factors are being studied.

That's how scientific experiments work. You isolate the one thing that you want to study and leave all else the same.

For example you could design an experiement where a diver does two dives, one deep and one shallow, and subjectively records his fatigue level. In such an experiment he would breathe the same gas mix on both dives.

This experiment would, at best, give the subjective impressions of divers for single dives. I don't think that anyone is maintaining that the lack of fatigue is identifiable under those circumstances, so the whole suggestion is rather a waste of time and effort.

Your suggestion that subjective reporting is not reliable is simply not valid. Many scientific experiments are reliant on reports of the test subjects. The idea is to implement proper controls so the subjects interpretation is not skewed by erroneous factors.

In fact the entire debate as to whether or not diving Nitrox results in less post dive fatigue is at present completely dependent on subjective impressions of divers. The idea is to study those "subjective impressions" while isolating (as much as possible) other contributing factors.

 

[Sas]

And I have no idea where I could find two identical tanks...

 

[nilsdiver]

* Nitrox Certified Divers Only * take the Nitrox challenge and post your results here.

Lots of discussion on this board and elsewhere about the supposed "Anti-Fatigue" effect provided by the more common Nitrox mixes, even though it's generally agreed that there is no credible evidence to support the theory that diving Nitrox noticeably decreases post dive fatigue among divers as compared to diving air.

What does this mean? That the exact same dive profile (depth & duration) , with the exact same amount of physical exertion, the exact same ascent plan, and the subject being in the exact same physical and mental state pre-dive, and the waters being the same temperature and sea state.. and the nitrox vs air being the only difference that the nitrox diver will feel less fatigued???

Seems like there are few more variables that need to be eliminated.

Seems to me that is off gassing is a source of stress on the body then you will off gas less with nitrox than air and be less tired.

 

[idocsteve]

Seems to me that is off gassing is a source of stress on the body then you will off gas less with nitrox than air and be less tired.

Yes, it "seems that way" to a lot of divers, the idea is to prove that it's in fact the case and not simply a nice idea.

What does this mean? That the exact same dive profile (depth & duration) , with the exact same amount of physical exertion, the exact same ascent plan, and the subject being in the exact same physical and mental state pre-dive, and the waters being the same temperature and sea state.. and the nitrox vs air being the only difference that the nitrox diver will feel less fatigued???

Seems like there are few more variables that need to be eliminated.

Ideally speaking the experiment would be done so that both dives were done in a tank where every other variable could be strictly controlled, but that's of course beyond the scope of this challenge. Under the "semi controlled" conditions of this experiment, it's nearly impossible to make both dives exactly the same, which is where the last paragraph in the first post comes from.

The idea is to keep both dives roughly the same in terms of depth and time and if there are enough subjects doing the experiment than over time the effect of Nitox on fatigue or lack thereof will be apparent.

And I have no idea where I could find two identical tanks...

I'm glad you're giving this some thought. If you can't find two tanks that nearly identical then have them filled and do your analysis while the tanks themselves are masked in some way, such as wrapping them in a blanket or something.

 

[idocsteve]

Noun 1. double-blind procedure - an experimental procedure in which neither the subjects of the experiment nor the persons administering the experiment know the critical aspects of the experiment; "a double-blind procedure is used to guard against both experimenter bias and placebo effects"

You are suggesting that it's not possible to perform a double blind experiment? At all or just in this case?

The experiment I have outlined in this thread is in fact double blind, and if done properly, as suggested, neither the experimentor nor the subject will know which gas they are breathing during the dive. The breathing gas IS the critical factor, aka the variable aka the property under investigation.