Take the Nitrox Anti-Fatigue Challenge and post your results here

[DaleC]

I just don't get how this type of experiment would add anything of value to the current body of knowledge. The results would be invalid because you could not replicate identical dives. Doesn't the debate already suffer from too much pseudoscience?

If you dive the same day wouldn't you feel more fatigued after dive 2 (regardless of the mix)?
If you dive seperate days how could you isolate the mix as the deciding factor in fatigue?

It would be much better to do the experiments in the gym on a stationary bicycle or treadmill. Same results and if you screw up the mixes the worst that will happen is you will fall down.

I've said it before but I think, if there is a reduction in fatigue using EAN it will probably be found to be the result of diminished subclinical DCS, lactic acid buildup or reduced WOB by the respiratory muscles.

 

[iztok]

Not rehash the "not identical dives" plan as this can be addressed with more data and average things. (more divers, more tanks etc...)

However you need to add at least 2 more tests to the mix. In fact you would need 4 groups of divers doing this.

1. Diving air knowing they dive air.
2. Diving nitrox knowing they dive nitrox.
3. Diving air thinking they dive nitrox.
4. Diving nitrox thinking they dive air.

 

[tstormdiver]

Well, I'll give a little bit of my own experience I've had. Not trying to get off on another topic about emergency swimming ascents, but I have used both air & Nitrox for conducting my Open Water evaluations. Because of the multiple ascents/ descents due to the air sharing ascents & emergency swimming ascents (must escort the students to the surface per standards) with a larger class (more than 5 students), if using air I will feel like a freight train has run me over by the end of the day. With Nitrox (32%- 36%), that feeling is greatly reduced at the end of the day. I am limited to a depth of 23ft + 3ft by the bottom of the quarry. At the average breathing rates of the students, I have yet to make a dive for evaluations last more than 45 min.

 

[iztok]

used both air & Nitrox for conducting my Open Water evaluations.

Would be interesting to test how you feel if you were diving air while thinking it is nitrox and the other way around.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Steve,

Why don't you charter a boat for a few days and invite a couple dozen of use to dive like crazy. You can devise a true double blind study with a significant number of samples in a situation (multiple dives per day for several days) where the Nitrox is most likely to have a measurable effect. Heck I will even buy the beer and do the stats (before I dink).

 

[idocsteve]

After 1 dive who notices fatigue? Its after multiple dives racking up some serious nitrogen saturation that you feel it.
2 diver's do 3 1hr dives with average of 50fsw 1 air 1 EAN, who's gonna feel worse? All of us who have done 3-5 dives a day on air and EAN know who's going to feel worse for wear.

if using air I will feel like a freight train has run me over by the end of the day. With Nitrox (32%- 36%), that feeling is greatly reduced at the end of the day. I am limited to a depth of 23ft + 3ft by the bottom of the quarry. At the average breathing rates of the students, I have yet to make a dive for evaluations last more than 45 min.

This thread is not about what you think you feel after diving Nitrox, it's about PROVING IT with a controlled scientific study.

 

[idocsteve]

Identical tanks, not a problem. Simply cover the tanks in spandex. The diver verifies the O2 in both tanks, a second person takes them out of sight and leaves, then a third person covers them for return by the second person.

Identical dive conditions required for a statically valid study? Not a problem, I know of two places that are both big enough and deep enough.

See that, it's easier than you think to perform a controlled study! The heck with the naysayers!

Not rehash the "not identical dives" plan as this can be addressed with more data and average things. (more divers, more tanks etc...)

However you need to add at least 2 more tests to the mix. In fact you would need 4 groups of divers doing this.

1. Diving air knowing they dive air.
2. Diving nitrox knowing they dive nitrox.
3. Diving air thinking they dive nitrox.
4. Diving nitrox thinking they dive air.

All excellent points, thank you for contributing to the Nitrox Challenge. Divers who are considering doing this experiment please place yourself into one of the above 4 groups and add your group designation to your subjective analysis and blend confirmation results.

Steve,

Why don't you charter a boat for a few days and invite a couple dozen of use to dive like crazy. You can devise a true double blind study with a significant number of samples in a situation (multiple dives per day for several days) where the Nitrox is most likely to have a measurable effect. Heck I will even buy the beer and do the stats (before I dink).

I don't drink beer, thanks anyway.

 

[Walter]

Even if the other issues were resolved.....

There are no idential tanks. Tanks and their valves get dinged. Unless someone else has the tanks filled and checked, the diver will know which tank is air and which is nitrox invalidating your experiment.

 

[jmasin]

This thread isn't about what whether you think Nitrox reduces post dive fatigue.

It's about proving it.

You're going to need a lot of samples to *prove* a subjective measurable such as fatigue.

There are far too many other variables which impact this. Hydration level, blood glucose level, did they work out the day before etc. etc.

Hell I'm fatigued right now just because it is Friday morning

I still don't understand the big deal of these last few threads on this topic. If someone wants chicken soup when they are sick because it makes them feel better let them have chicken soup.

 

[Schizlor]

This thread is not about what you think you feel after diving Nitrox, it's about PROVING IT with a controlled scientific study.

It's not about what you think you feel....it's about proving what you feel?

I don't get the difference. Proving a feeling is impossible. I can't scientifically "prove" to my girlfriend that I love her anymore than I can prove that I don't feel fatigued as much after diving with Nitrox. I can state how I "feel" at the time, that's it. I understand one is an emotional feeling, and the other is physiological, but the idea that a feeling can be proven by simply interviewing the participant and asking his/her personal feedback on how they feel after the dive is simply not true. Trying to collect empirical data on feelings is futile.

How can factors such as hydration level during the dive, amount of sleep the night prior, which dive is done first (Nitrox or Air), what I had for breakfast, my overall mood prior to dives (excitement, nervousness, malaise), conditions during the dives, and they myriad other factors that contribute to my physiological condition before, during, and after the dive, be discarded in order to "simplify" the study.....and the test be expected to have any real scientific validity?

As a scientific study I think doing this kind of test is impossible using the parameters you've outlined (too many contributing factors are being discarded in the name of streamlining the test)....and as a subjective test, as others have stated, this has already been done numerous times with far larger sample sizes; all yeilding similar results: It's all subjective and conditional on a number of other factors besides the mix you're using, and no concrete conclusions can be made one way or the other.