Take the Nitrox Anti-Fatigue Challenge and post your results here

[Thalassamania]

What a study can prove is that the effect exists. Then begins the inquiry into why the effect exists, an entirely different question.

 

[idocsteve]

If you'd bother to read my post you'd find several subjective and several objective measures.

I "bothered" to read your post, thank you very much. Just because I don't necessarily agree to what you have written or responded to each and every detail does not mean that I didn't give your post the time that it deserves.

But what we were discussing was your proposed experiment. The problem with your experiment, I maintain, is that no one is proposing that a there is an effect on a single dive. Single dives have already been tested (albeit, dry) and no effect was found. What needs to be tested is multi-dive, multi-day, for which there are strong indicators that an effect will be found.

In fact, I have read many posts by divers who maintain they feel better after diving Nitrox as compared to air and they are not referring to multiple dives over multiple days.

 

[Thalassamania]

I "bothered" to read your post, thank you very much. Just because I don't necessarily agree to what you have written or responded to each and every detail does not mean that I didn't give your post the time that it deserves.

Just out of curiosity ... what is it that I said that you disagree with?

In fact, I have read many posts by divers who maintain they feel better after diving Nitrox as compared to air and they are not referring to multiple dives over multiple days.

There is no evidence at the single dive level that there is any effect. The only science that has been done on the question address the single dive issue, and finds that there is no significant difference, at least for the sort of dive that was tested.

 

[idocsteve]

Just out of curiosity ... what is it that I said that you disagree with?

This part here (bold is added)

The problem with you experimental design is the single dive, that's already been tested and EAN has been shown to not reduce fatigue on single dives. I maintain that this is not the case on multi-dive multi-day exposures.

 

[Thalassamania]

Well, as I said ... that's already been tested and rejected, if there is an effect it's too small to detect, at least for the subject dives.

 

[Diver0001]

This experiment would, at best, give the subjective impressions of divers for single dives. I don't think that anyone is maintaining that the lack of fatigue is identifiable under those circumstances, so the whole suggestion is rather a waste of time and effort.

I don't think it is. It's questioning an assumption and I don't see when questioning assumptions is ever a waste of time.

That said, there seems to be some anecdotal evidence to suggest that some divers feel better after diving Nitrox than they do diving on air. I don't personally notice any difference at all but I don't feel tired diving on air either. I think I just make clean ascents...

For those divers who *do* see a difference, Steve, whether it's a placebo or real doesn't matter. Something is obviously "working" for them.

Love your new avatar, BTW.

R..

 

[DaleC]

First, I would question whether there is "proof" that Nitrox doesn't decrease fatigue even on single dives. There is always that one experiment touted true, but if one looks closely it was one experiment involving a chamber ride by 11 divers to 18msw. Does one experiment indicate "proof"? (More about this experiment below)

Before asking other people to waste their times pretending to do science for your own amusement how about resolving some glaring issues that will nullify their findings and make them no more than ancedotal which subsequently nobody, including you, will take as proof of anything. ie:

1.)How will you design dives that are equal in effort?
2.)How will you ensure that the effects of the first dives do not impact on the findings of the second?
3.)How will you test for fatigue?
4.)How do you define effort?

Along with some issues impacting fatigue that I've already mentioned (subclinical DCS, lactic acid buildup, respiratory WOB) and issues that others like Thal have mentioned (cumulative effects of multidive/multiday dives) there is also the issue of whether the divers engage in light, moderate or heavy exertion during the dives. It may be that the benefits of Nitrox use don't show up in light - moderate exertion dives but do so in heavy exertion dives (which may parallel the benefits felt by multi dive/day users).
Perhaps, the testing quoted in the Rubicon referenced experiment did not cause heavy enough exertion wherein the benefits would be produced. Did anyone consider how much effort should be exerted?

There is lots of work that could be done in this area but I think some study of the causal factors would be of more benefit that just going out and doing flawed experiments.

 

[diver 85]

For free???---not bad, need someone to lug your heavy equip around there so you don't 'get tired'???...., would hate for your 'nitrox feeling' to get wasted on topside stuff....

 

[idocsteve]

Well, as I said ... that's already been tested and rejected, if there is an effect it's too small to detect, at least for the subject dives.

I was questioning your statement that you think Nitrox does have an effect on reduction of fatigue on multiple dives over multiple days.

 

[Diver0001]

3.)How will you test for fatigue?

To me that's the crux of the whole discussion.

Fatigue isn't measurable because it has such a big psychological element.

You can hypnotize people and make them feel great for hours or you can make them feel like crap..... just by telling them to. And it's like this with the normal internal dialogue in your head too..... any study of fatique will always be highly influenced by the placebo effect.

R..