Taboo

[scubadada]

Exactly. I almost get paranoid when buddy diving--checking where the buddy is way more than really necessary. Then I get ticked off when they don't do the same and just wander around. At times you spend more time making sure you are together
instead of enjoying the dive. A really good buddy eliminates that--if you can find one.

I'm not saying i haven't shared beautiful dives with wonderful buddies but in a resort environment, it seems many don't take it seriously.
If I'm assigned a buddy, they are told outright that I will follow but will not chase. If they find themselves to far from me, it's on them.
When do you find out how reliable your buddy truly is? Hopefully before it's too late!
At the start of most every cattle boat charter, a few are diving solo. They just don't know it yet...

Correct, the buddy system works both ways, or not.

 

[Wibble]

A few decades ago, solo diving was considered taboo. Hopefully in the near future self-reliant training becomes as commonplace as nitrox training. Whether or not trained divers go solo, having the appropriate training would increase awareness of dive safety.

The problem/challenge being the low levels of "mastery" of diving by many of the recreational "pros", especially in the resorts. Whilst a self-reliant diver's a good thing, it's most definitely not the same thing as a solo diver who has special techniques (planning, caution) and equipment (redundancy, etc.)


A dive with another diver isn't the same as buddy diving. If someone needs a buddy then either bring one or pay a DiveMASTER; don't ask nor expect me to do it unless I explicitly agree to it. If ever I'm diving in a resort and some arbitrary DM says I'm "buddying" with some other person, I make it abundantly clear that I won't do anything of the sort: they're the DM, they need to resolve it.

 

[tursiops]

Whilst a self-reliant diver's a good thing, it's most definitely not the same thing as a solo diver who has special techniques (planning, caution) and equipment (redundancy, etc.)

So, for you, a self-reliant diver is not the same as a solo diver? Even though the training for the two certifications is nearly identical? Or do you mean people who've had no training and just self-label?

 

[ontdiver]

Did not know that, my instructors may have been lax on that point. I like my snorkel for shore diving, but what does PADI expect me to do with one in my pocket on a boat dive?

Well....as detailed in other threads, many divers do carry a pocket snorkel.

Like every other piece of gear you carry, it is important that you know where it is; and how to access it and use it properly/safely under a variety of conditions.

It takes some time getting used to deploying things from a pocket and it is a good idea to practice this skill so that you can do it seamlessly.

 

[Wibble]

So, for you, a self-reliant diver is not the same as a solo diver? Even though the training for the two certifications is nearly identical? Or do you mean people who've had no training and just self-label?

Definitely not the same.

I know it's subtle, but self-reliant is more about the team diving approach, diving with others and being able to be alone occasionally.

Solo diver is exactly that: from planning, config, setup, loading up, checking kit and the dive, it's all alone. The in-water time is an assessment of the skills you've brought along, aside from trivial coaching, you must be able to safely cope with all failures, whatever are thrown at you (blindfold, tied up, air-gunned, fin removed and a blindfold ascent with stop....)

This is why the Self-Reliant Diver card is pointless. Certainly in the UK it's not accepted anywhere for solo diving. Only the SDI Solo Diver certification is accepted.

I've personally nothing against self-reliant divers. It's important to know what it's about. But it's not the same as a solo diver. Worse still, from my PADI days, the self-reliant "course" was frequently mentioned as being equivalent, which it isn't.


How would you all describe the differences between the "courses"?

 

[tursiops]

Definitely not the same.

I know it's subtle, but self-reliant is more about the team diving approach, diving with others and being able to be alone occasionally.

Solo diver is exactly that: from planning, config, setup, loading up, checking kit and the dive, it's all alone. The in-water time is an assessment of the skills you've brought along, aside from trivial coaching, you must be able to safely cope with all failures, whatever are thrown at you (blindfold, tied up, air-gunned, fin removed and a blindfold ascent with stop....)

This is why the Self-Reliant Diver card is pointless. Certainly in the UK it's not accepted anywhere for solo diving. Only the SDI Solo Diver certification is accepted.

I've personally nothing against self-reliant divers. It's important to know what it's about. But it's not the same as a solo diver. Worse still, from my PADI days, the self-reliant "course" was frequently mentioned as being equivalent, which it isn't.


How would you all describe the differences between the "courses"?

Not sure where you are getting your information.
Have you actually looked at the content and standards for the two courses?
Are you absolutely sure there is no place in the UK the self-reliant card is accepted for solo diving? You've actually checked them all?

 

[AdivingBel]

When I took my PADI self reliant it was taught from the SDI Solo literature. PADI hadn't published/widely distributed theirs at that time. It was the same course. I haven't had my cert questioned. Maybe it's "an across the pond" thing. It is a worldwide audience.

 

[yle]

The problem/challenge being the low levels of "mastery" of diving by many of the recreational "pros", especially in the resorts.

I don't know which "pros" you're referring to or what "the resorts" are. I assume you were directing this post at me, since you quoted my post.

Whilst a self-reliant diver's a good thing, it's most definitely not the same thing as a solo diver who has special techniques (planning, caution) and equipment (redundancy, etc.)

PADI's solo diver course is called Self Reliant Diver, and they suggest that a diver that completes the SRD course is qualified to dive solo. (EDIT: I just read the rest of the discussion and saw that you addressed this point. I won't claim that every SRD diver should be diving solo. But it is a fact that the purpose of the SRD course is to allow its participants to safely dive solo.)

I agree with you that technically a "self reliant" diver (irrespective of PADI's course) is not the same thing as a "solo diver"... all solo divers need to be self reliant, but not all self reliant divers must dive solo. I guess "self reliant" is more a state of mind, whereas "solo" is certainly a state of being.

Regardless of your concerns, I am still going to stand behind my assertions that (1) hopefully the "you're all gonna die!!" attitude toward solo diving gradually softens, just as the similar attitude did for the use of nitrox, and (2) that training in techniques and preparation for "self reliant" diving, or even solo diving, becomes gradually standardized... just as training for the use of nitrox has.

 

[yle]

A dive with another diver isn't the same as buddy diving. If someone needs a buddy then either bring one or pay a DiveMASTER; don't ask nor expect me to do it unless I explicitly agree to it. If ever I'm diving in a resort and some arbitrary DM says I'm "buddying" with some other person, I make it abundantly clear that I won't do anything of the sort: they're the DM, they need to resolve it.

Lighten up, Francis. I think I speak on behalf of everyone here: we promise not to ask you to be anyone's buddy.

 

[yle]

This is why the Self-Reliant Diver card is pointless. Certainly in the UK it's not accepted anywhere for solo diving. Only the SDI Solo Diver certification is accepted.

I've personally nothing against self-reliant divers. It's important to know what it's about. But it's not the same as a solo diver. Worse still, from my PADI days, the self-reliant "course" was frequently mentioned as being equivalent, which it isn't.

But my original post, which you quoted above, was not suggesting that we should make everyone a solo diver. I simply suggested that with time the attitude toward solo diving would become more accepting and that hopefully "self reliant diver" training would become more mainstream.

The SRD course has a lot of benefit even if a student of the course never uses it to solo dive. It's like the Rescue course: a lot of information and training that can help divers plan all their dives more effectively, execute their dives more safely and avoid problems. That's the primary benefit of the Rescue course. I've been a student in the Rescue course and I've taught the Rescue course... and I've never had to actually rescue anyone. Which is kind of the point, ironically, of the Rescue course: ideally, you're always aware but never have to use it.

I'd bet the training and information in the SRD course would serve a similar purpose. Even if it's not recognized anywhere in the UK.