Taboo

[Wibble]

How savage is the Self Reliant Diver assessment? Lots of stress and pressure? Sending up a bag blindfolded whilst rope 'falls' on you and you're airgunned (simulating a leak forcing a switch from primary to backup and doing a shutdown)?

 

[Cdncoldwater]

There's a student manual for the PADI Self-Reliant course now?

I will say I'm always disappointed when SDI instructors don't take advantage of SDI's policy of supporting them adding sensible performance requirements and dives.

When I did my solo/self-reliant course last year we used the SDI manual but the main certification was PADI. I and one or two others opted to get both agency certifications.

 

[jlcnuke]

How savage is the Self Reliant Diver assessment? Lots of stress and pressure? Sending up a bag blindfolded whilst rope 'falls' on you and you're airgunned (simulating a leak forcing a switch from primary to backup and doing a shutdown)?

Here is a copy of the SDI standards

Here is a copy of the PADI standards

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

It's actually quite good. I'm not sure I have the current one - mine is the distinctive specialty manual from 2011, but it isn't bad at all. It's probably the best instructor manual I've seen from PADI.

I was wondering if there was a student manual for the standard specialty. A distinctive specialty is typically (always?) written by the instructor and approved by an agency.

 

[tursiops]

I was wondering if there was a student manual for the standard specialty. A distinctive specialty is typically (always?) written by the instructor and approved by an agency.

Self-Reliant is a "standardized distinctive specialty." PADI provides the IM for it. Some use the IM (without KR answers) as a student manual.
One difference between a SDS and the traditional distinctive specialty is that to teach a SDS you only have to use a "Method 2" application to teach, and not provide your own IM and use Method 3, which also costs more.

 

[Wibble]

They're not at all similar in their goals even though the course material's not dissimilar. Taking the intro paragraph of both, the Solo Diver course is unequivocally for solo diving. The Self-Reliant Diver course is for diving with buddies (which is PADI's ethos) .

Here is a copy of the SDI standards

Introduction
The objective of this course is to train divers in the benefits, hazards, and proper procedures for diving solo. Upon successful completion of this course, graduates may engage in solo diving activities

Here is a copy of the PADI standards

General Purpose
The purpose of the Self-Reliant Diver specialty course is to recognize and accept the role of the buddy system and its contributions to diver safety while identifying and developing self-reliance and independence while diving. There are two reasons for an experienced diver to take the Self-Reliant diver course:
• To develop the skills of planning and carrying out dives without a partner when preferred or necessary.
• To sharpen skills of diving self-reliance, making the diver a stronger partner in a dive pair or team.

Picking out another point from the PADI course

This course is an introduction to self-reliant diving that helps student divers develop the skills, knowledge and techniques necessary to rely on themselves first, whether or not they are diving with a partner

That sounds to me like the course ethos is to dive with others, but maybe not holding hands.

Much of the PADI course material bangs on about buddy diving -- it's SOLO for goodness sake! Or is it?

Please pile in to me for saying this...
Student divers, by definition, should not be diving solo. Only experienced divers should dive solo.

These are short one or two day courses. IMHO, they should be called "workshops" as students should NOT be learning anything major. "Students" should be demonstrating their overall competence as a diver, handling gas failovers, responding to challenges, planning, preparation, etc. The instructor's prime objective should be assessing that diver as being competent to dive solo.

Unlike every other course (I cannot think of any other), you cannot go away with a weakness and practice - unless you're "failed" then re-assessed later.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

These are short one or two day courses. IMHO, they should be called "workshops" as students should NOT be learning anything major. "Students" should be demonstrating their overall competence as a diver, handling gas failovers, responding to challenges, planning, preparation, etc. The instructor's prime objective should be assessing that diver as being competent to dive solo.

Unlike every other course (I cannot think of any other), you cannot go away with a weakness and practice - unless you're "failed" then re-assessed later.

This is really about the instructor, not the agency. One of the things I picked up from GUE fundies is to separate the teaching, practice, and testing. On the teaching dives, demonstrate the skills, make sure the students understand what is required. Have them perform the skills and provide feedback on what needs to be corrected. If in the unlikely scenario that it only requires a littel bit of practice, do some repetition until they can't get it wrong. In my experience, that doesn't happen.

What I do is take a break where students go off and practice until they can't get it wrong. Then when they are ready, we reconvene. If they still have issues, I provide feedback, and they go off and practice again.

That can be done with most con ed courses (dry suit is an exception, but that isn't that arduous) with any agency. But doesn't really work for destination style recreational diving, where people want to go home feeling good about themselves with a new c-card. That's the demand of the market, and the scuba industry complies. Remembe that agencies make money from each certification. With subjective criteria for passing, students will typically get certified on the condition that they don't drown.

Breaking up the teaching and testing/validation isn't common, but not unheard of. Usually it is from people who have had a taste of DIR and teach locally.

 

[jlcnuke]

There are two reasons for an experienced diver to take the Self-Reliant diver course:
• To develop the skills of planning and carrying out dives without a partner when preferred or necessary.

There are two reasons for an experienced diver to take the Self-Reliant diver course:
• To develop the skills of planning and carrying out dives without a partner when preferred or necessary.

Let me summarize:
The first stated reason to take the PADI self-reliant course is to be able to dive alone... to dive solo, when you need to or just want to.... dive solo.

The last dive of the course doesn't even require an instructor in the water, you literally can do the dive SOLO.

If you can't figure out from that alone that the PADI course is a solo diver course we can't spoon feed that information into you any more effectively I don't think. Believe what you will, but if you think it isn't a solo diver course then you're wrong. What you personally "believe" a solo course should be is up to you, but the fact is that all the major agencies offering such courses (self-reliant, solo, or independent diver) are providing solo diving courses, even if you're hung up on PADI also discussing using those skills as part of a buddy team if you choose to do so.

 

[tursiops]

If you can't figure out from that alone that the PADI course is a solo diver course we can't spoon feed that information into you any more effectively I don't think. Believe what you will, but if you think it isn't a solo diver course then you're wrong. What you personally "believe" a solo course should be is up to you, but the fact is that all the major agencies offering such courses (self-reliant, solo, or independent diver) are providing solo diving courses, even if you're hung up on PADI also discussing using those skills as part of a buddy team if you choose to do so.

Wibble prefers to cherry-pick things from the IM so as to try and prove his unprovable point(s). Tiresome.

 

[Wibble]

This is getting circular and I really don't want to agency bash (although I may have been guilty a bit above!) as it's down to the instructor's skills.

My only point is that diving solo is a serious undertaking that must never be approached lightly. Anyone doing the 'course' must be fully competent before attending.