T3 counseling needed.

[Study Joe]

Will someone please convince me I should get an ST1 now and stop obsessing over the T3?
or
Will someone please convince me waiting for the T3 makes complete sense and I should buy one because I can?

I am a new AOW diver with 10-20 dives buying my first reg with plans for mostly warm water diving requiring travel. I may also do a few local Virginia dives. My Bahamas liveaboard leaves June 1. I don't plan on technical diving, but if someday I advance to that I imagine I would need to invest in a new kit head to toe.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Look at the weight difference between the T3 and the ST1. Does it really matter for your travel, where if you have half a brain your expensive regulator will be in your carryon? If it does, get the T3. Otherwise, get the ST1 in DIN and spend some of the savings over the T3 on a yoke adaptor.

First off, you're only buying either of these over a B2 or M1 because you like the corrosion resistance/durability of the Ti/SS first stages better than the servicable but definitely less durable chromed brass first stages. All of the AA regs breathe the same. The T3 and ST1 are equally resistant to corrosion in the first stage body, but being harder than Ti, the ST1 should be a bit more ding and scratch resistant. At the second stage, the T3 has a slightly smaller case...can't really see how that matters, unless a normal AA second stage case is too big/heavy for you. But in terms of how they're built, with Ti valve tubes and such, the ST1 and T3 2nd stages should be the same. Both have swivles, too, though I find they're unnecessary if you go with a long hose primary/short hose necklaced backup rig.

Also, Ti isn't O2 friendly, while SS is. This is why I suggested you get the ST1 in DIN, because no matter what diving you do, this is a reg that will always work for you. Wind up doing tech and need to put your backgas reg onto a deco tank that has a malfunctioning reg? No big deal with the SS reg...not such a hot idea with the Ti reg.

Honestly, if I was advising someone on what to get for the most durable and flexible reg set to buy, I'd say get an ST1 DIN first stage, a cheap yoke adaptor (no need to make it the expensive SS one) and two M1 second stages (with cave rings if you really like being able to clean out the second stages easily). When the time comes for tech, if it ever does, all you have to do to make it a reg good for up to 80% O2 is drop a new Monel piston into the ST1 and you're good to go. Skip the normal length LP hose with the AA swivle and do a 7' primary/22" secondary on a necklace.

One catch: I have no information as to what's so special about the T3 that it has an extra year on its suggested service interval (3 years) over every other AA reg (2 years). That could tip the scales if AA has improved the whole reg somehow.

 

[Downing]

Or split the difference and get a T2x. Just because Atomic's coming out with a new model soon doesn't mean the current model is inferior. You might even be able to score a good deal on it since the new model's about to be released.

Dr L's advice is spot on, though, except I'd say the T2x is nitrox friendly since it can handle 40% out of the box.

Really, you could save a wad of cash and get yourself a Z2 or Z2x. My wife has a Z2x and it breathes and performs just as well as my T2x. But if you have a certain fascination with titanium, as I do, then either hold out for the T3 or get a T2x.

Bottom line: if I were in your shoes, I'd wait for the T3 even though there are lots of valid reasons not to do so. I have to admit there is something special about owning the latest and greatest even though there's always something better coming down the pipe someday.

 

[BoltSnap]

Wait until the T3 is out and then make your final decision. There is nothing worse than saying later "I wish I had waited for few more weeks." This doesn't mean that you should or shouldn't buy the T3 though.

Since you are a VERY new diver, I wouldn't worry about what is and what isn't good for technical diving at all at this point. If and when you decide to go the technical diving route (after many many dives), you will be buying a whole new kit head to toe for your technical diving that is totally separate from the recreational diving kit. What you have to worry about now is the compatibility of the regulator with Nitrox (up to 40%) and this is a none issue with either the ST1 or T3.

Regardless of the regulator model you buy, I'd recommend that you buy DIN first stage with a brass Yoke adapter (the one that B2 uses) with no need for ST1 or T3 Yoke adapter. The ST1 or T3 yoke adapters cost almost the same price as a new regulator


(I see no reason at all to buy a T2 now, either the ST1 or T3).

 

[SubZeroScuba]

Is it working, and does it support EAN40?

All you need to know. Seriously. I use a 25 year old Scubapro of some mediocre sort. Still does the job, multiple dives on days with air temperatures well below 0 F, EAN40 is no problem, 200 fsw dives is all good, given it a hell of a beating crawling around in wrecks. If a cheap old Scubapro can do that, what do you need anything else for? Just pick one.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

I greatly respect AA's quality products and their excellent customer service even more so... but I'll never understand the interest in Ti bodied first stages. They're very O2 unfriendly (the T2x/T3 get their 40% ratings in large part from their monel pistons), and the weight savings is something like half a pound. If Ti was more durable/corrosion resistant, I'd see it, because I prefer SS over chromed brass for that reason even though brass is obviously 'good enough'. But it's less hard than SS and is essentially the same on corrosion resistance. Then there's the ~$500 price difference for the Ti.

Maybe I'm just a sucker for a solid piece of machined steel

Is it working, and does it support EAN40?

All you need to know. Seriously. I use a 25 year old Scubapro of some mediocre sort. Still does the job, multiple dives on days with air temperatures well below 0 F, EAN40 is no problem, 200 fsw dives is all good, given it a hell of a beating crawling around in wrecks. If a cheap old Scubapro can do that, what do you need anything else for? Just pick one.

SZS has spoken. Let all reg manufacturers now close up shop, and all of us shall buy our 1/4 century old regs from fleaBay, ChlamydiaList, and or the SB classifieds section. Nothing more is needed, no matter the OP's stated preferences.

 

[SubZeroScuba]

Haha. I am just making a point. I got the Scubapro from my dad maybe 10 years ago. The new stuff of course has it´s advantages, but it´s not like air changes much from one generation to the next. Properly maintained equipment is more important than weather it is the T3, T2x or ST1. Take a look at what the Navy uses (atleast the Norwegian). It´s a real bastard-rig. Not a single standard was followed that day, and the tech. is at least 15 years old. Still do air-dives to 180 ft for the final SCUBA exams. Everyone has a preference, but I don´t believe that any choice would be much better for OP, as he shoulden´t be doing anything that challenges the gear he is using for quite a while.

 

[Study Joe]

Thanks for the great input from all.

Admittedly I do like the weight factor of the T3 even if it is slight in the grand scheme. Lugging a reg around in a carry-on through Australia, New Zealand, and many hostels and airport terminals with long delays while traveling last fall left me realizing how much every ounce/kg counts, especially in those countries where they do weigh your carry on....or maybe I am just using that as an excuse for my self-admitted "fascination" with titanium as Downing describes it.

Yes I am looking at titanium and stainless steel for the corrosion resistance. That's why I ruled out the Z2X, B2 and M1, though the M1 looks good too.
I realize both T3 and ST1 work the same. Neither is safer in the water than another, or even a well maintained 25 year old reg. And I am definitely not looking to push the limits of my reg, or more importantly myself. This is for a straight up recreational dive kit.

What I have is an infatuation problem. My local shop explained it to me as "you're a gear head."
I am leaning towards the ST1 after your comments, however I am not completely over the T3. I would be interested in hearing an Atomic reps' viewpoint on the matter. I tried calling the office to talk to a rep but they really did not want to say much about the T3 over the phone other than it would be out sometime soon.

Also do you think there would be an issue with nitrox and air switching without cleaning with the T3?

Regarding the DIN vs yoke what about the issue of the adapter hitting you in the head? Is the adapter a failure point?

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Also do you think there would be an issue with nitrox and air switching without cleaning with the T3?

Regarding the DIN vs yoke what about the issue of the adapter hitting you in the head? Is the adapter a failure point?

Re: switching, no. The 40% rating on the T2x is for non-dedicated use, meaning the reg is fine to use with non-O2 grade air and then 40% EAN without any cleaning in between. No way the T3 is any different on that score.

Re: potential issues caused by a DIN adaptor: some people notice it more than others, and it seems to be a function of body type, BC type, valve type, and tank placement in the BC. I personally don't care about it, while I know others think it's constantly banging their heads. You should probably try one before buying, and another approach is that if you're just diving yoke now, get that and you can always pay to have the thing converted to DIN later if you want/need it. But there's no doubt DIN+adaptor is the most flexible approach and since I prefer DIN, own lots of my own tanks, and haven't sold my very first reg, an ST1 yoke 1st stage, because I keep it for when I know I'll only dive single tank rentals... DIN+adaptor is what I'd get if I could only have one reg. YMMV.

As far as a failure point, it adds some small leverage to the yoke connection and an additional o-ring interface. But I doubt the additional leverage on the 'inside' of the valve, between your skull and the overhead (if any) matters in terms of whether the reg could get knocked enough to unseat the yoke/tank valve connection. The extra o-ring is more realistically a failure point, but only in terms of 'gee, you'd better carry both a DIN and a yoke o-ring in your save a dive kit'. Once the reg is properly assembled and on the tank, the only thing that's going to potentially fail is the non-captive yoke/tank o-ring seal.

 

[Study Joe]

What is the science behind making the T2x and T3 ok for non-dedicated use? They are all made of the same type of titanium right? Is it a lubricant issue, machining issue, or something else completely?