Swimming vs. Snorkling in OW Course

[String]

"they" == the european standards body not padi.

Yes, PADI had to raise their standard to count for that not the other way around.
Thats why its not across the board.

IIRC there are some similar changes for Australia too.

 

[Walter]

I'd say there are numerous other ways to increase your confidence in your ability to dive safely than swimming. If I have an incident that induces the panic cycle I doubt that I'm going to be thinking "geez, if I do get out of this, I'm not going to be able to swim to safety."

How about spending the swim time doing exercises that actually relate to diving? Like air sharing, reg recovery, mask r & r, etc.? I think that would be time better spent if our aim is in fact to improve self confidence.

kari

I agree there are many other skills that need to be learned in the OW class to finish the process of building confidence. Unfortunately, that's all too rarely done either. Lots of skin diving, lots of work taking off and putting on gear, complete doff & dons with no assistance, bailouts, gear switches while buddy breathing (not octo), rescues are all necessary elements in the process, but if you teach them all to a non-swimmer, it's like putting a steel building on mud. It's gonna fall apart if you don't put the foundation in the bedrock. Swimming is the bedrock on which all else is built.

You are also correct when you say, "I doubt that I'm going to be thinking 'geez, if I do get out of this, I'm not going to be able to swim to safety.'" The problem is non-swimmers know they are non-swimmers. Nothing you can tell them will ever make them truly believe deep down where it counts that it's ok to be diving as a non-swimmer. When the brown stuff hits the fan, they aren't thinking at all. They are screaming, clawing, climbing and lucky if they have someone who is thinking grab them and put their non-swimming butt on the boat.

 

[Lead_carrier]

I think the PADI standards are too low. 2000m would be better. That should eliminate those who only flap their hands or dog paddle.

Ok we will now do the 2000m (1.24 mile) swim. As soon as we finish that we'll do the 6 hour survival float. If you're still around after that, we're going to really get tough on you..

I'll agree with raising the standards but I think that would be a bit excessive for the swim.

 

[Joe-Diver]

Ok we will now do the 2000m (1.24 mile) swim. As soon as we finish that we'll do the 6 hour survival float. If you're still around after that, we're going to really get tough on you..

Divemasters will be throwing things at you, splashing water on you and yelling at you. After you get out of the water you'll have to run 5 miles in the surf, dragging a rubber boat. Lunch will not be served, you'll spend it in the front leaning rest.

 

[Thalassamania]

Divemasters will be throwing things at you, splashing water on you and yelling at you. After you get out of the water you'll have to run 5 miles in the surf, dragging a rubber boat. Lunch will not be served, you'll spend it in the front leaning rest.

I think I took that class once. It was the front leaning that nearly killed me.

 

[Joe-Diver]

I think I took that class once. It was the front leaning that nearly killed me.

Yeah, I hated that....especially on loose asphalt.....

 

[lucybuykx]

I'm interested in the rationales that the 200m swim is either confidence or stamina. I think its something else.

I tend to the opinion that if someone cannot swim 200m then they should get swimming lessons and training before continuing with their diving course.

There's not the swimming per se but the somatic knowledge of what your body is doing in the water, a very different medium from being on land. 200m is probably long enough for an instructor (who has more swim experience right?) to evaluate whether the student knows their body feel in the water.

 

[Thalassamania]

I'm interested in the rationales that the 200m swim is either confidence or stamina. I think its something else.

I tend to the opinion that if someone cannot swim 200m then they should get swimming lessons and training before continuing with their diving course.

There's not the swimming per se but the somatic knowledge of what your body is doing in the water, a very different medium from being on land. 200m is probably long enough for an instructor (who has more swim experience right?) to evaluate whether the student knows their body feel in the water.

I agree, it's a question of how far does someone have to swim for an instructor to be able to evaluate. But ... in the first 50 yards I can tell you who's "teachable" but it often takes further and a little tiredness to tell you who's "not yet teachable."

 

[lucybuykx]

... in the first 50 yards I can tell you who's "teachable" but it often takes further and a little tiredness to tell you who's "not yet teachable."

you mean its a question of attitude as well as ability... if someone has commitment to finish, even if they find it difficult, then they are more likely to do the same with the dive course

 

[Thalassamania]

you mean its a question of attitude as well as ability... if someone has commitment to finish, even if they find it difficult, then they are more likely to do the same with the dive course

That can be a piece of it. The jock that jumps in and whips off a sub 25 sec 50 meters you know has the watermanship (and is going to be an attitude problem), the guy who starts of doing the elementary backstroke or sidestroke, but never changes pace or stroke but finishes a few seconds ahead of the deadline … well you don’t really know about him till the end.