Swimming Skills Assessment

[pjhansman]

Come on... We all saw the movie open water... Now that is an extreme and swimming would not have helped them much. However it brings up a good point. "Swimming to shore" it happens unfortunately. People get left because, poor management of dive boats... Not often but it does happen happen every year. Sometimes floating is not an option, if the shore is within a 1-3miles a good swimmer would make this easy with their gear intact. A couple of poor swimmers might continue to float and either fall to the fate of the movie, be picked up later 1hr-24hrs-36hrs.. Personally, im not waiting on the boat. If they were that dumb to loose me, who is to say they would be smart enough to find me in time if I just float...

More importantly, rescue... be it self rescue or that of a loved one. Being a good swimmer is a must. If you cant swim for yourself, then you cant swim for you and another...

Like many others who are gifted with positive buoyancy, you sit on your pedestal and decree that the lack of ability to swim is a fitness issue, or laziness, or lack of desire, or whatever.

I am gifted with negative buoyancy. In a fresh water pool, I can stand on the bottom without weights. Great for diving, but for swimming, where the intent is to generally stay on top of the water, it is no fun at all. Therefore I don't swim.....I dive.

However, if I can float, I can swim. I'm in reasonably good shape, and can propel myself rather quickly thru the water. I know HOW to swim....I just suck at it.

Therefore....give me a mask, snorkel and fins, I'm good to go. Give me a nice buoyant wetsuit and/or BCD and life is good.

Trace....sorry to keep hyjacking your thread. I'm done. This is just going in circles.

 

[ToyZuki9615]

I am not sure I understand your point here. I don't know of any dive certification agency that does not already have swimming requirements that exceed this.

Just stating that 10-11 year olds are required to perform the task before being allowed in the deep end of a swimming pool with a lifeguard present. The requirement for SCUBA IMHO is very basic and simple to anyone comfortable in the water.

I feel the options are somewhat limited too... I am no competition swimmer, however I did pass a lifeguard training.

 

[TMHeimer]

Like many others who are gifted with positive buoyancy, you sit on your pedestal and decree that the lack of ability to swim is a fitness issue, or laziness, or lack of desire, or whatever.

I am gifted with negative buoyancy. In a fresh water pool, I can stand on the bottom without weights. Great for diving, but for swimming, where the intent is to generally stay on top of the water, it is no fun at all. Therefore I don't swim.....I dive.


Yes, a good point I often forget to make. I, too am very negatively buoyant. This of course affects floating ability, especially in fresh water (I can float in salt water, but not even close in fresh). But it also affects swimming. Even when I was in my best recent swim shape, I know a certain amount of my energy went to keeping me afloat--I could feel it. That will tire you out faster.

 

[Thalassamania]

If someone fell off a boat with none of their gear on where I dive, I don't care if they were Michael Phelps, they would be dead in about 15 minutes. The waters on average about 50 degrees sometimes as low as 42 degrees.
Even if they fell in with no fins wearing a full 7 mil suit or thicker they'd be screwed if nobody knew it and kept going. Ever try and swim with thick wetsuit on and no fins? it doesn't work too well.

It's the booties that keep you from making progress through the water, if you know how, you can move at a good rate, even without fins.

I know a guy who's wife is a competitive lap swimmer and could probably smoke 90%of all people here on SB, men and women alike.
He tried to get her to dive with him and she went through open water etc. She did it for him more than anything.
She hated it and was on the edge ready to freak at all times while she was under water. On top of the water she loves it, under water is not her thing.

Other people may be opposite.

That speaks to two things, the wife's motivation (e.g., she did not want to do it) and the instructor's ability to teach (and motivate).

 

[Brendon]

How did the divers in your scenario lose their fins, BCD's, wet suits, etc.?

No one said anything about losing gear...?? Your point however sucks. So you think that because you have those things that it ensures your safety and safe passage... If you cant swim without them, i doubt you would swim even a mile with them. So being able swim and more importantly having the endurance to do so for ahwile is key. Have fun "floating".

 

[boulderjohn]

No one said anything about losing gear...?? Your point however sucks.

Thank you for the careful analysis. It is refreshing to read an articulate response like this. It is so rare these days.

So you think that because you have those things that it ensures your safety and safe passage... If you cant swim without them, i doubt you would swim even a mile with them. So being able swim and more importantly having the endurance to do so for ahwile is key. Have fun "floating".

So the purpose of having excellent swimming skills as a prerequisite for scuba (as opposed to having average swimming skills, not as opposed to having no swimming skills) is to ensure that a diver who is left behind by a departing vessel will be able to swim multiple miles to shore, a situation that apparently is very common in your experience.

You agree that the diver in this situation would retain use of fins and other diving equipment.

The technique of swimming on the surface with no equipment is different from swimming with that equipment. In fact, it is almost opposite. Swimming without equipment uses primarily the arms for propulsion, with limited help from the legs. A swimmer using dive fins does just the opposite, using the legs primarily and avoiding arm use completely. Logically, then, if the purpose of swim skills is to prepare one for an extended swim whilst using diving equipment, shouldn't the test of this be an extended swim using dive equipment rather than an an exercise that tests something different?

 

[TMHeimer]

Thank you for the careful analysis. It is refreshing to read an articulate response like this. It is so rare these days.


So the purpose of having excellent swimming skills as a prerequisite for scuba (as opposed to having average swimming skills, not as opposed to having no swimming skills) is to ensure that a diver who is left behind by a departing vessel will be able to swim multiple miles to shore, a situation that apparently is very common in your experience.

You agree that the diver in this situation would retain use of fins and other diving equipment.

The technique of swimming on the surface with no equipment is different from swimming with that equipment. In fact, it is almost opposite. Swimming without equipment uses primarily the arms for propulsion, with limited help from the legs. A swimmer using dive fins does just the opposite, using the legs primarily and avoiding arm use completely. Logically, then, if the purpose of swim skills is to prepare one for an extended swim whilst using diving equipment, shouldn't the test of this be an extended swim using dive equipment rather than an an exercise that tests something different?

YES!!! Swimming with equipment with fins of course is not really a skill--it's mostly simple leg strength, with a bit of emphasis on fin stroke technique. Swimming is a skill and a sport, as I like a definition of a sport to include that it could be or is competitive. That's why I would like to see the swim tests greatly reduced in distance, but the mask/fin/snorkel tests increased a lot. I also think the mfs tests should allow use of arms, as that would be the way I would probably go if going a distance to rescue someone. Now we're talking major speed.

 

[Brendon]

Thank you for the careful analysis. It is refreshing to read an articulate response like this. It is so rare these days.


So the purpose of having excellent swimming skills as a prerequisite for scuba (as opposed to having average swimming skills, not as opposed to having no swimming skills) is to ensure that a diver who is left behind by a departing vessel will be able to swim multiple miles to shore, a situation that apparently is very common in your experience.

You agree that the diver in this situation would retain use of fins and other diving equipment.

The technique of swimming on the surface with no equipment is different from swimming with that equipment. In fact, it is almost opposite. Swimming without equipment uses primarily the arms for propulsion, with limited help from the legs. A swimmer using dive fins does just the opposite, using the legs primarily and avoiding arm use completely. Logically, then, if the purpose of swim skills is to prepare one for an extended swim whilst using diving equipment, shouldn't the test of this be an extended swim using dive equipment rather than an an exercise that tests something different?

OK, I must have not been specific enough, because were getting off track. I think I agree with what your getting at. How you swim, I think is not as important as they ability to do so in some fashion. If you can swim with your fins on and wetsuit thats great. That would be more then likely what you would have on anyways. Personally I dont think you should have to do a swim test, in a traditional sence... However I do think everyone should be able to swim with snorkel gear atleast 900yrds. Not that they would raise the standard so high for an OW student.. Having the ability to get yourself from point A to B and the endurance to do so is key.

As far as your other comment about people getting left often were im at, It onlys takes once. Do enough diving in other countries and you will see what I mean.

 

[Mr Carcharodon]

I really do not know how to answer the poll. Over the eleven or so years that I have been diving I have been somewhere between an average and strong swimmer as defined in the poll. Within that range there is somewhere between zero and a negative correlation with diving ability. Right now because I am masters swimming it takes time away from diving. So swimming hurts my diving. Exactly the opposite of the the conclusion that appears to have been assumed.

 

[fjpatrum]

No one said anything about losing gear...?? Your point however sucks. So you think that because you have those things that it ensures your safety and safe passage... If you cant swim without them, i doubt you would swim even a mile with them. So being able swim and more importantly having the endurance to do so for ahwile is key. Have fun "floating".

You'd be seriously wrong. As someone else mentioned, not everyone is positively buoyant. Some of us sink, even in salt water, without added buoyancy from a wetsuit or BC. I can swim for miles in a wetsuit, literally. Without one, I can go perhaps a thousand yards if I'm really motivated and not already tired. It takes too much effort for me to stay on the surface without a wetsuit. I swim quite well.

No one said they assume safety and safe passage with their gear. You made an illogical jump from someone diving to someone falling off a boat without any gear to show how divers should be able to swim extremely well. I'd dare say it is your point that sucks, especially when you use a crappy "sharks in the water" movie as the basis for your point. But I could be wrong- it happens... occasionally.