Swim-through or cave?

[boulderjohn]

A good opportunity for PADI to devise a "35' U-shaped Swim Through Certification".

I realize this is a joke, but....

I had a very long discussion with PADI headquarters a few years ago about (roughly) this topic, only in regard to wreck diving. To summarize the discussion at that time, it turned out that PADI considers a basic swim-through to be open water, not an overhead. I was specifically referred to the 1991, 4th quarter training bulletin that even said it was possible to take OW students through a short swim-through during a certification dive.

Our debate had started with the statement in the wreck course that it was necessary to lay line any time you penetrate the wreck, and I had shown a video of divers cutting the corner of a wide open deck. I was told that was a video of a "Swim-through," not a "penetration." I pointed out that the course doesn't mention swim-throughs, and they said it didn't have to, because everyone knows swim-throughs are open water.

To cut to the end of the story, they accepted my suggested alternate definitions for swim-throughs and penetrations, and they said that my wording would appear in future rewrites of both the wreck and the OW course. They then published my wording in their professional journal a couple years ago.

The difference is huge. Their previous attitude could be summed up as "just say no to all overheads," without every coming out and saying "swim-throughs might be OK." My more extensive wording describes a very basic swim-through accessible to anyone and talks about the complications that might require special training and/or equipment. Instead of "just say no," it's "Use your head--do you have the skill, equipment, and training to do this safely?"

 

[Norwegian Cave Diver]

Did they take you into the "cave zone" ?

No. Saw the cave sign but we were only on the cavern line.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

So....... if I am at 30ft and hovering directly under my boat where if I go directly to the surface I will hit my boat........am I in an overhead environment? I don't think so....

When it comes to the technical definition of "overhead environments" ........ I think that most divers know the distinct difference between a simple swim through and a "real" overhead environment.

 

[rx7diver]

I am not a

... Any thoughts from the community? How would you assess this? Am I exaggerating the risks or is this as unsafe as it feels to me?

I am not a fan of this kind of dive for open water divers, in general. In fact, I strongly advocate against. Basic open water training teaches that an open water diver is to avoid swimming in overhead environments, where he/she is unable to make a direct ascent to the surface, perhaps while sharing air.

Training (and/or mentoring) for Cavern Diving seems to be readily available. I don't think this training is prohibitively expensive. (It used not to be.) A diver who is cavern trained will have learned enough about diving overhead environments to know more why the dive that the OP describes should (?) be avoided by open water divers.

rx7diver

 

[Matthias Hoeller]

Thanks to all of you for your replies. It appears to me that there is no clear unambiguous answer to my question, which is fine of course.

Matt

 

[happy-diver]

Well I wanted to answer the question for those too challenged to see an opportunity for adventure
in learning due to being held back by insurmountable irrational fear and should not be diving at all

but I am writing in the dirt outside my cave and I hear my mother calling for some mammoth bone

 

[grantmac]

If you can't swim through while sharing air with any person in the group then it's too tight for that group. Ie: if you need a long hose to get an OOA diver through but everyone has short hose donate.

 

[EFX]

If you can't swim through while sharing air with any person in the group then it's too tight for that group. Ie: if you need a long hose to get an OOA diver through but everyone has short hose donate.

This is the key answer. Personally, I will not go through any swim through restrictions that are over about 6 ft. unless my buddy(s) are on long hoses and everyone has discussed the hazard pre-dive.

 

[undefined]

- the plan was clearly communicated during the briefing, no "surprise cave adventure"
- everyone was explicitly and actively asked for their consent after the briefing
- we said "no", and that was easily accepted without any attempts to persuade us otherwise.

I wasn't there and am less qualified to give an answer as to whether it is a swim thru, cavern, or cave, than the others here, but this part stood out to me. Good on the shop for having the sense to brief you fully before the dive started, and good on you for making the decision as to whether or not you were prepared to execute on that dive plan and expressing your concerns before the dive started. This is how it is supposed to happen, but often not how it plays out.

 

[Kimela]

We did a dive that was an overhead environment and we all understood the parameters and agreed to it. One member, only part-way in, flipped a sudden u-turn and exited out the entrance (claustrophobia?). There was plenty of room for the exit so it was fine. The environment you are describing wouldn't allow for a last-minute change of heart, and that would concern me. I think you made a good call.