Surface support station, whose responsibility?

[MauiScubaSteve]

I have seen a 15' deep "hang bar" with "hang regs" for Oahu wreck diving with max 120' hard bottoms.

I'm guessing that guides without much "ocean concept" repeatedly finished dives with customers nearly "empty" or "on alternate", so the contracted boat owner covered his arse.

Most of Oahu's guides snickered at such an arrangement, as it seemed to encourag surfacing nearly empty, AFAWWC.

 

[Bigd2722]

What I can see, it appears to be used by instructors for assistance during classes. Pretty much seems like a gimmick rather than a useful accessory

 

[KJackson60]

I would like to thank everyone for their responses. A "Surface Support Station" as defined by PADI is a tank of air and reg(s) suspended at 15' by either a float or boat. There may be additional weights with the air tank and reg(s) as well as an RDP. The reason this is available is for any diver who may exceed the NDL limits for that dive and may not have enough air to complete an emergency decompression stop. The weights are for those divers who may be somewhat under weighted during a safety stop and need extra weight to help maintain there 15' depth. A hang bar with surface supplied reg(s) is also considered a "Surface Support Station"

The only time I have seen one used is when an AOW class is being done at the local quarry and the students are doing their deep dive. While PADI recommends that one be used on any recreational deep dive, eg deeper than 60', I have never seen one used. That is why I was asking if it is common for these not to be used or if it is just the charters that I have been on that do not us them.

From your responses it seems that this is not a commonly used procedure. I agree that a properly planned and executed dive pretty much negates the need for a support station. It also seems that most if not all of you carry your own "support station" in the form of a redundant gas supply. Again, I wish to thank you for your responses and hope to dive with you someday.

 

[shoredivr]

I would like to thank everyone for their responses. A "Surface Support Station" as defined by PADI is a tank of air and reg(s) suspended at 15' by either a float or boat. There may be additional weights with the air tank and reg(s) as well as an RDP. The reason this is available is for any diver who may exceed the NDL limits for that dive and may not have enough air to complete an emergency decompression stop. The weights are for those divers who may be somewhat under weighted during a safety stop and need extra weight to help maintain there 15' depth. A hang bar with surface supplied reg(s) is also considered a "Surface Support Station"

Thanks for clarifying that. I've seen this done once on a liveaboard in Australia.

Biting my tongue a bit, but what the heck. If PADI taught people how to calculate their gas requirements rather than come back to the boat with more than 500PSI, (eg see Rock Bottom calculations in NWGrateful Diver's sig line,) it would be harder to "just run out of gas". Likewise, if PADI taught how to correctly weight themselves when their tank is 500PSI or less, there would be no need for extra weights. Of course, anyone can change their exposure protection from what they use at home, or use a different tank, but you can always check before hand, in a pool.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

It also seems that most if not all of you carry your own "support station" in the form of a redundant gas supply.

I would need to see links to believe this.

 

[KJackson60]

I would need to see links to believe this.

Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to the responders of this thread, most of whom seem to be more involved with Technical style dives or who indicated they carried a pony of some sort. This actually does not apply to everyone so I will withdraw the statement.

[-] If PADI taught people how to calculate their gas requirements rather than come back to the boat with more than 500PSI, (eg see Rock Bottom calculations in NWGrateful Diver's sig line,) it would be harder to "just run out of gas".[/-]

I agree that gas planning is not covered to the degree it should be. How ever if someone is out of gas and is doing a CESA I do not think they are stopping at a support station on the way up. The intent is to supply extra gas for someone who does not have enough air to complete an additional 15-20 minute hang because of staying past their NDL time. This may be to not paying attention (usually) or because of some other factor. It is not my intention to condemn or support this practice and in fact I agree with much that has been said in this tread.

 

[Chief Dave L]

A number of divers that I know off of New Jersey put a tank over the side of the boat at about 15' to hang there for emergencies. They are usually doing long dives with planned decompression. The tank over the side is just emergency insurance. The boat owners or captains don't have any problems with this that I am aware of. It is more of a personal thing as opposed to an agency requirement.

Dave

 

[DivemasterDennis]

What KJackson 60 describes as a "surface support station" is standard on most live aboards, but in 14 years of diving with over 100 day boat operators, I have never seen a day boat "dangle a tank." Diving no decompression profiles with a buddy and a dive professional in the water suggests such a "surface support station" would not be expected as part of the reasonable safe practices expected of the dive concessionaire. Let me comment on the "60 feet is a deep dive" part of the thread. The description of 60 feet or deeper as a deep dive is done as the issues of nitrogen loading and fidelity to no decompression limits becomes more important and less forgiving once we descend to those depths. But the fact is, the consensus recreational dive maximum, up to which many ndl dives are done every day, is 130 feet. Nor does one's level of certification dictate to what depth you can "legally" or competently dive. That is determined by your skill level, conditions and, at times, who you are with. My first dive after certification was at Molikini Crater off Maui, to a depth of 80 feet. While I hold a professional rating, my wife and buddy is an open water diver. However, she has hundreds of ocean dives, dives with me, and nearly 20% of her dives have been to a maximum depth of over 100 feet. We also have plenty of dives to 30 feet. All divers should dive within their limits. That includes those who hold advanced open water credentials, but have few if any dives other than their certification dives. Don't worry about getting a ticket from the scuba police for exceeding 60 feet with only an open water certification. It has never happened. We are each responsible for diving within our own competence and limits. Be active, be safe, and have fun! Just be smart.
DivemasterDennis

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Couple of thoughts ...

On the PADI definitions of almost anything ... they apply to classes, not recreational dives. PADI doesn't have the authority to impose definitions on charter operators or individual divers, except as how those definitions apply to classes. Outside of the class environment, divers and dive ops make their own rules.

On hang tanks (the more common term for what KJackson60 refers to as a "surface support station") ... they are commonly used in tech applications where support divers are not available ... but in those cases, the tank will contain a deco gas (EANx) and will be positioned at whatever maximum depth that particular gas is applicable. Sometimes they are used on day boats in places such as the Blue Hole in Belize ... where recreationally-trained divers are commonly taken below recreational depths on small tanks, and where OOA situations are not only common, they're planned for (money talks, in those cases). I've never seen a hang tank used for a recreational application on either a day boat or liveaboard I've ever been on.

Seems to me that a common use of hang tanks would be an admission that current training methods are inadequate for routine diver safety.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Couple of thoughts ...

On the PADI definitions of almost anything ... they apply to classes, not recreational dives. PADI doesn't have the authority to impose definitions on charter operators or individual divers, except as how those definitions apply to classes. Outside of the class environment, divers and dive ops make their own rules.

...


Seems to me that a common use of hang tanks would be an admission that current training methods are inadequate for routine diver safety.

Completely agree, that while teaching a PADI Deep Diver Specialty I would be "breaking the rule" to take students deeper than 130 feet, but when just diving recreationally ...

I would be interested in hearing "where" ...

"PADI recommends that one be used on any recreational deep dive, eg deeper than 60 feet"