Suit filed in case of "Girl dead, boy injured at Glacier National Park

[Ayisha]

So let's look at the defense she foolishly presented in another public forum before being advised to stop. Now imagine her expanding on that as she explains to her agency why she is not at fault:

"The person who is at fault is the other student, Bob, whom I had allowed to take pictures on a training dive. My student, Bob, was the only person who was in a position to rescue the deceased because I was not nearby and not paying attention to either of them."​

She expanded with this social media post as well:

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

It sounds to me like they may have known they couldn't rent her a drysuit without certification, so they did an end-run around it by facilitating a private sale. In any event, it strains credulity that the defendants could have believed she had used a drysuit before, unless she lied.

It is not unheard of for open water students to take open water in a dry suit, but not getting a certification. Standards require an orientation.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Instructors and shops not wanting to teach the competition their techniques.

All my classes are open for observation from other instructors. I only ask to save questions after I finish. Then we can have a debriefing/Q&A.

 

[Wookie]

You only have to read instructor manual protocols and realize it's become a bureaucratic mess when it comes to critiquing certain behaviors. The standards have dropped. Anyone can buy a c-card. My method of evaluating potential Divemasters and Instructors is to give them a water aspiration test just before they perform an out-of-air situation. You hand them your octopus that doesn't work properly and breathes more water than air. If they bolt to the surface they fail. If they signal out of air and hand it back to you while switching back to their primary they pass. Otherwise psychometric testing.

If you pulled that with me, I'd likely make you regret it when I figured it out. You'd never knowingly give someone a broken set of gear again, that's for sure.

 

[HKGuns]

Is there a single instructor on this site who would let a student enter the water without discussing weighting and performing a buddy check?

EDIT: Oh, even better, they sent her into the water for the first time in a dry suit KNOWING she had no way to use it properly? Wow........

In every single course I have taken, weighting has been discussed and a weight check was conducted upon entering the water. Prior to entering the water, we went through a very thorough pre-dive buddy check.

When we did our night dives I dove with three lights, a main a backup and a third smaller light stowed in my BCD pocket. As part of the pre-dive buddy check we also checked that our main and backup lights were working. I will add that a student should have learned, prior to entering the water, the standard is to have two lights for night diving. That is clearly stated in the reading materials and covered in the exam as well. I'd have called the dive myself not having a light or a working dry suit.

These two simple things would probably have prevented this tragic death. That poor young lady, truly sad.

 

[boulderjohn]

You only have to read instructor manual protocols and realize it's become a bureaucratic mess when it comes to critiquing certain behaviors. The standards have dropped. Anyone can buy a c-card. My method of evaluating potential Divemasters and Instructors is to give them a water aspiration test just before they perform an out-of-air situation. You hand them your octopus that doesn't work properly and breathes more water than air. If they bolt to the surface they fail. If they signal out of air and hand it back to you while switching back to their primary they pass. Otherwise psychometric testing.

I have three questions:
1. Who has dropped standards? What standards did they drop?
2. Who is selling C-cards?
3. If your potential DM holds his or her breath on that panicked ascent to the surface. has a CAGE, and dies, how will you explain your unorthodox testing procedure? (You do know, don't you, that a joint PADI/DAN study found that CAGE following a panicked ascent was the most common preventable cause of scuba deaths?)

 

[boulderjohn]

She expanded with this social media post as well:

View attachment 657985

Well, that pretty much contradicts the lawsuit 100%. Since there was a GoPro involved, that contradiction should be handled easily.

 

[Wookie]

2. Who is selling C-cards?

You cannot become a certified drysuit specialty instructor with OWSI. As an MSDT, she could have become a drysuit specialty instructor legitimately during moths of diving in Montana, when she would have had ample opportunity to become a drysuit whiz. However, a drysuit whiz would have absolutely known that the planned dive could not be done without the ability inflate the suit.

If she were not a legitimate PADI instructor, she could not issue PADI certifications at all. In one case I know, a shop (in Florida, IIRC) was issuing fake PADI cards after the classes.

If you look up Aquastrophics, you will find a dive operator who will give you a certification card for any agency you like--just tell him it is a replacement card and identify the agency you want. You will also find all sorts of information about what they offer, including online nitrox courses. They will also tell you they will offer cheap online classes that can be used in lieu of the academic portion of the OW classes for other agencies, which is not true. they have been doing this for at least 15 years, and they are apparently still doing it. What happened is that the owner was a NAUI instructor who got expelled by NAUI, so he just created his own agency, which is not considered legitimate by anyone except his students. I have not checked in years, but the last time I did, the listed company headquarters appeared to be a vacant lot. I contacted the Attorney General for Arizona years ago, and apparently it is all legal--or at least the AG was not interested in pursuing it.

To name 1. But we all have stories of shops issuing c-cards without actually ensuring that standards were met....

 

[boulderjohn]

To name 1. But we all have stories of shops issuing c-cards without actually ensuring that standards were met....

So it is figurative language that is not to be taken literally.

My response is, "So what's new?"

The History of NAUI, written by NAUI founders, said they knew this was happening from their very start in the 1960s--they knew some people were certified without even attending a class. I realize that this violates to commonly stated belief that scuba instruction was simply marvelous, with every graduate a veritable scuba God, until a few years ago, which translates to, "It was all perfect all around the world until the day after I was certified, then it all went bad at once."

 

[wnissen]

So let's look at the defense she foolishly presented in another public forum before being advised to stop. Now imagine her expanding on that as she explains to her agency why she is not at fault:

"The person who is at fault is the other student, Bob, whom I had allowed to take pictures on a training dive. My student, Bob, was the only person who was in a position to rescue the deceased because I was not nearby and not paying attention to either of them."​

I just keep thinking about this quote. The deceased was a student in the class. Bob was a student in the class. There was no other instructor (or even assistant) in the water. That is all stipulated in the facts at the top of the case that are agreed on by all parties. It is 100% fact. Unless Snow is alleging that Bob himself put in the weights and pushed Linnea over the ledge, there is no conceivable scenario in which Bob or Linnea could possibly be at fault. I really think this is manslaughter. I hope Snow goes to prison for years, because she did everything short of providing the final push to kill this girl. And I hope Bob goes after her for libel if there is any assets left.