Suit filed in case of "Girl dead, boy injured at Glacier National Park

[Esprise Me]

I am an Instructor trained at "that shop". I had been a Divemaster for a year before I went to IDC, but they required that I audit their DM program for free before taking the Instructor course that followed. The entire course was superb, and head and shoulders above my previous DM training.
The fault doesn't lie there. There is a bell curve in the student group and my class was no exception. But my in-water testing by the Examiner wasn't much of a challenge. If bad apples snuck through, that's where the problem lies. Could the school have refused to allow them to test? Yeah, but a not a good business model if the Examiner is willing to pass them.
Was it a mill? Only to the extent that it is a large organization. The quality of training that I received was superb.

I'm not a dive professional. But I am a supervising attorney involved in hiring, training, and overseeing staff attorneys. The attorneys we hire are often fairly new, but they've still had to clear a number of hurdles designed to weed out the stupid--getting into law school, graduating from law school, passing what is arguably the most difficult bar exam in the country, and then presenting well in our interview. And yet... let's just say, if anyone has any bright ideas on how to reliably keep the idiots out of dive instruction, please share. We could use some of that magic over here.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Why?

I stated earlier in this thread that I forgot to connect it, I was trying to catch up with others, and was having difficulty attaching it as I descended. I was annoyed with myself and kept going as I'm a stubborn SOB.

 

[dlofting]

I'm not a dive professional. But I am a supervising attorney involved in hiring, training, and overseeing staff attorneys. The attorneys we hire are often fairly new, but they've still had to clear a number of hurdles designed to weed out the stupid--getting into law school, graduating from law school, passing what is arguably the most difficult bar exam in the country, and then presenting well in our interview. And yet... let's just say, if anyone has any bright ideas on how to reliably keep the idiots out of dive instruction, please share. We could use some of that magic over here.

If you put aside any form of competency/skill testing the only way you can assess a potential employee you don't know is by what they have done in the past. You can sometimes determine their depth of experience in an interview but there's no way to reliably assess competence. New grads, even those who have passed a certification exam, have very short resumes, so you're going mostly on personal fit, which usually comes down to whether you like the person or not. This is why hiring is essentially a crapshoot.

 

[MikadoWu]

I am an Instructor trained at "that shop". I had been a Divemaster for a year before I went to IDC, but they required that I audit their DM program for free before taking the Instructor course that followed. .

You had been a DM for a Year.... That's a huge difference in experience. The majority of thier Zero to Instructor in 90 days College students that have only dove in the swimming pool called Florida Keys. Many have never seen a Din, a Dry Suite, a BP/W. To certify people that do not even know all the tools, is criminal.

We are talking about lives, there is no wrong side of a bell.

I have a buddy in their IDC now, I will not let him instructor me and he knows it.

 

[boulderjohn]

If you put aside any form of competency/skill testing the only way you can assess a potential employee you don't know is by what they have done in the past. You can sometimes determine their depth of experience in an interview but there's no way to reliably assess competence. New grads, even those who have passed a certification exam, have very short resumes, so you're going mostly on personal fit, which usually comes down to whether you like the person or not. This is why hiring is essentially a crapshoot.

It often is, but it doesn't have to be. I have never had to hire a scuba instructor, but I have hired many teachers. You can easily formulate interview questions, etc. that tell you a lot. When we interviewed high school teachers for my department, we asked them to bring in an example of an assessment that they felt was representative of their teaching. More than half would start the interview process by handing over a photographic copy of a multiple choice test out of a teacher guidebook, not knowing that before we asked a question they didn't have a chance in Hell. I would similarly feel out potential scuba instructors by having them describe their approach to CW1, explaining why they did whatever they did. I would probably eliminate half by the first 2-3 minutes of their answers.

Once hired, I would absolutely take a new instructor through a training session to make sure they understood the shop instructional philosophies, and then I would observe the first few classes being taught.

If, on the other hand, you believe (as some shop owners firmly believe) that the purpose of instruction is to certify divers who willl then purchase equipment and go on dive trips, then any certified instructor will likely do, and then, yes, it is a crapshoot.

 

[Bob DBF]

If, on the other hand, you believe (as some shop owners firmly believe) that the purpose of instruction is to certify divers who willl then purchase equipment and go on dive trips, then any certified instructor will likely do, and then, yes, it is a crapshoot.

In that case not any instructor will do, only the ones that work an effective sales program into their diver training. The quality of training will be secondary to the sales generated.

 

[Joris Vd]

Oh lord, I just went through the whole thing and what a tragedy, what a tough read...

My heart goes out to the parents, all involved and also Bob, who as a student, atleast tried to help.

It does boggle my mind that they would let someone dive a drysuit without any pre-dive protocols or safety briefings, and without an inflator hose attached... This poor girl put her safety in someone's hands as a new diver and payed the price.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

would similarly feel out potential scuba instructors by having them describe their approach to CW1, explaining why they did whatever they did. I would probably eliminate half by the first 2-3 minutes of their answers.

Most would crash and burn. However, a good follow up would be to see if they'd be interested in an apprenticeship program where they assist until their deficiencies are addressed.

 

[dlofting]

When we interviewed high school teachers for my department, we asked them to bring in an example of an assessment that they felt was representative of their teaching. More than half would start the interview process by handing over a photographic copy of a multiple choice test out of a teacher guidebook, not knowing that before we asked a question they didn't have a chance in Hell.

Just wondering....did any of the candidates ask beforehand as to the type of assessment you wanted to see ?
Did any ask if they could bring more than one example ?

 

[dlofting]

Most would crash and burn. However, a good follow up would be to see if they'd be interested in an apprenticeship program where they assist until their deficiencies are addressed.

I'm not a scuba instructor, nor a school teacher but have written and conducted courses for adults. I'm not sure why you think most instructor candidates would crash and burn. I assume we're talking about certified instructors and you're assessing them as employees or contractors for a dive shop.