Suit filed in case of "Girl dead, boy injured at Glacier National Park

[Subfiend]

Well, as I said earlier, I have not seen anything resembling instruction in these dives. If Linnae as the only one doing AOW, she would be the only one who could tell you what AOW dive was being done. Post 1,793 suggests she was doing the navigation dive, but your description show Snow doing the navigation. Perhaps she is demonstrating, but any such demonstration should have happened on the surface. The students are supposed to perform the skill under water.

The later certifications for the others defies belief.

I am sure you are aware that Snow foolishly participated in a FaceBook thread immediately after the incident in which she laid the blame on Bob, who was supposedly Linnae's buddy. This makes zero sense in regard to the video, since Snow obviously has to see how far separated they are and she has to be approving of it.

Of all the AOW dives, navigation is the most demanding of time and instructor engagement. If two people are doing it at the depths of this dive, I have run out of time (air supply) and had to do a second dive to complete the skills.

Here is the screen shot from the video that DT used. Linnea is at 60 feet looking up, Nathan and Seth are ascending away from her, and Debbie is above looking down.

I have Debbie's social media posts.

I was surprised that PADI was still issuing certifications based on these dives two months after the fatality.

 

[Subfiend]

Because of a tactical mistake made by PADI and Gull Dive's lawyers, they never saw Bob's video until a year and a half after the incident, more than one year after the case was filed. This meant they didn't actually know what happened, other than what Debbie could tell them, which wasn't much.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Prisons would be overflowing if that were the case.

As a friend once said "God only made one perfect man and I'm not him." Everyone makes mistakes and while you can and often should be held responsible civilly the bar for criminal negligence is very high. Did Snow exceed that bar? I don't know, that really isn't for me to decide is it?

From Cell Phone Use While Driving and Its Legal Implications

Vehicular Assault: If you cause injury to another person while distracted on your phone, you could be charged with Vehicular Assault. This offense is a Class B Felony and carries up to 10 years in prison and up to a $20,000.00 fine.

Vehicular Homicide: If an individual causes the death of another person while using their cell phone while driving, they may face charges of Vehicular Homicide. This particular crime is a Class A Felony which carries penalties that range up to life in prison and up to a $50,000.00 fine.

 

[Manatee Diver]

In Washington State, USA, texting and driving are illegal. I'm not positive, but I think if you killed somebody while texting and driving you could be subject to vehicular homicide prosecution. (We have "vehicular assault" and "vehicular homicide" crimes that are often associated with injuries and deaths where the driver was intoxicated.)

Here's the relevant part of the RCW.

RCW 46.61.520: Vehicular homicide—Penalty.

app.leg.wa.gov

From Cell Phone Use While Driving and Its Legal Implications

Vehicular Assault: If you cause injury to another person while distracted on your phone, you could be charged with Vehicular Assault. This offense is a Class B Felony and carries up to 10 years in prison and up to a $20,000.00 fine.

Vehicular Homicide: If an individual causes the death of another person while using their cell phone while driving, they may face charges of Vehicular Homicide. This particular crime is a Class A Felony which carries penalties that range up to life in prison and up to a $50,000.00 fine.

To both, could is the key word there. But is it likely?

But here is the key question what do other parts of the statue and case law define the following two as:
(b) In a reckless manner; or
(c) With disregard for the safety of others.

Chances are simple distracted driving likely doesn't qualify. Just as simply speeding likely doesn't qualify.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

To both, could is the key word there. But is it likely?

But here is the key question what do other parts of the statue and case law define the following two as:
(b) In a reckless manner; or
(c) With disregard for the safety of others.

Chances are simple distracted driving likely doesn't qualify. Just as simply speeding likely doesn't qualify.

Well, I've read cases of people actually going to prison. How common is that? I have no idea. Is the justice system perfect? No. If I remember this thread when I speak to friends who are prosecutors or criminal defense lawyers, I'll ask them.

 

[Manatee Diver]

Well, I've read cases of people actually going to prison. How common is that? I have no idea. Is the justice system perfect? No. If I remember this thread when I speak to friends who are prosecutors or criminal defense lawyers, I'll ask them.

Without other aggravating factors? Like speeding or aggressive driving?

I'm not saying that it can't happen, just that it isn't likely to happen.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Without other aggravating factors? Like speeding or aggressive driving?

I'm not saying that it can't happen, just that it isn't likely to happen.

The two cases (I will admit not statistically significant, but none of my observations on anything are) were just driving normally. They were not speeding/aggressive as their focus was their phones. Unfortunately, it resulted in deaths each. Maybe they were the uncommon case of trying to make an example. But that never works.

 

[Subfiend]

We had a difficult time getting the investigators and the AUSA to understand that the instructor had a duty of care for their student, there were training standards set by the agency that defined the duties and responsibilities of the instructor, and there were violations of these standards. They just didn’t comprehend this. It was bizarre. Simple things, like the instructor has to show the student how to set up equipment they had never used before and check for compatibility with the scuba gear rented by the shop, were just incomprehensible to them. It felt like we were speaking in Chinese to a dog, and he only knew the word “bone.” The overarching impression I got was “They can’t be this stupid, so they must be either lazy or stubbornly unwilling.”

 

[MrVegas]

Finally, two of our experts voluntarily tested the impact of suit squeeze under similar circumstances. Neither died, but neither was happy when they came up. Don't try this at home.

Just curious if there were expert reports or any write-up or detailed discussion the results of these dives. Seriously, a lot of us coldwater drysuit divers would be interested. Forgetting to hook up an inflator hose is one of the most embarrassingly common things even an experienced drysuit diver can do -- no excuse for it, but it happens.

 

[Subfiend]

Just curious if there were expert reports or any write-up or detailed discussion the results of these dives. Seriously, a lot of us coldwater drysuit divers would be interested. Forgetting to hook up an inflator hose is one of the most embarrassingly common things even an experienced drysuit diver can do -- no excuse for it, but it happens.

There were internal discussions and reports from consulting experts. Sig Sigerson's fatality was investigated by NEDU (dive to 96 ft. with no suit inflator).

NEDU advised the diver would be able to breathe at that depth, but would feel that he couldn’t breathe easily, and would have very restricted movement due to suit rigidity. As you go deeper (Linnea was at 127 ft.), breathing would be very difficult. There would be movement by the diver to do something about it, though movement would be completely restricted. Suit squeeze inhibits the chest walls from expanding and contracting, which is how breathing occurs. Short, shallow breathing starts at shallower depths, contributing to hypoxia (and panic). With the inability to breathe fully at depth, simply by not being able to move her chest, she’d go hypoxic in less than 1.5 minutes.

WHERE the suit folds and presses into the torso plays a role. Think of a steering wheel in a car accident, where the driver can be trapped against it. If a fold presses into the diaphragm, this can be a further inhibitor. That's why having an oversize suit was a problem in Linnea's case.

Discomfort and pain from suit squeeze are only one factor to contend with. Inhibited movement is another, more serious, factor. This causes the inability to recover a regulator, compression of the chest walls, shallow breathing, etc. All five were present here.