Suit filed in case of "Girl dead, boy injured at Glacier National Park

[Subfiend]

I don't think that the fact that the ranger happens to dive as a hobby, means that in his job as a ranger he's supposed to be doing dive checks. Where there really should be heads rolling is with the investigators who so badly botched the investigation.

The issue with the ranger is that you are not allowed to engage in commercial activities in a National Park without a Commercial Use Authorization (“CUA”), and Glacier NP does not issue CUAs for scuba diving. So, the activity was not allowed. Period. And, as a DM who questioned the participants and knew they were in a training class, the ranger knew the activity was not permitted. Add to this the fact that it was late in the day, there was no way to communicate with the outside world, the scene on the beach was chaotic, etc., and the needle moves into the category where the ranger should have decided to be better safe than sorry. He had the knowledge and power to stop an obviously unsafe situation and he failed to do so. That’s my opinion.

 

[pauldw]

The issue with the ranger...

OK, got it,

Earlier where you talked about a second video, is that from the second attempt to rescue?

In the second Dive Talk video, I'm confused about the part about the couple who got in trouble at DEMA, because of something about purple buddy tags. What's up with that?

 

[Subfiend]

OK, got it,

Earlier where you talked about a second video, is that from the second attempt to rescue?

In the second Dive Talk video, I'm confused about the part about the couple who got in trouble at DEMA, because of something about purple buddy tags. What's up with that?

There are two videos: (1) dive one with Debbie and Emma while Linnea looks on, and (2) dive two with the whole group, minus Emma. There is a 6-minute gap in between the two videos where the camera was not recording.

The purple tags have a buddy checklist engraved on them. Dive-Rite gave Lisa Mills a pass to enter the DEMA Show in 2022 so she could distribute tags at their booth. Somebody complained to the DEMA Show organizers and they came down on Dive-Rite, saying they violated the show’s rules. There was a bit of a dustup, but the show organizers backed down. Somebody with at least half a brain decided to not be so petty.

 

[kammel78]

The issue with the ranger is that you are not allowed to engage in commercial activities in a National Park without a Commercial Use Authorization (“CUA”), and Glacier NP does not issue CUAs for scuba diving. So, the activity was not allowed. Period. And, as a DM who questioned the participants and knew they were in a training class, the ranger knew the activity was not permitted. Add to this the fact that it was late in the day, there was no way to communicate with the outside world, the scene on the beach was chaotic, etc., and the needle moves into the category where the ranger should have decided to be better safe than sorry. He had the knowledge and power to stop an obviously unsafe situation and he failed to do so. That’s my opinion.

I think we can all safely agree that there's a plethora of preventative measures that could have been taken to prevent this absolute senseless death, not to mention the incompetence and quite possibly intentional mishandling of the incident handling/investigation.

My question, @Subfiend is whether there will be any corrective actions as a result of this, from the NPS, ISB, AUSA, PADI, anyone at all (even unofficially), or are we more or less expected to trade another senseless death for caveat emptor?

 

[Subfiend]

My question, @Subfiend is whether there will be any corrective actions as a result of this, from the NPS, ISB, AUSA, PADI, anyone at all (even unofficially), or are we more or less expected to trade another senseless death for caveat emptor?

Unfortunately, the short answer is no. Here is a summary of the government and industry responses so far:

We tried to get some acknowledgement of responsibility from the NPS, but all we received were some off-the-record apologies from a couple of people saying they wish their colleagues had done a better job.

The ISB supervisor called me to express his displeasure with the family complaining about the ISB's feckless non-investigation, saying it would be best if I advised them to stop doing so. I told him not to hold his breath.

The AUSA could not be bothered. She said they would always be willing to look at new information if we had any, but she went on and on about having "prosecutorial discretion" and she was thoroughly disinterested in the idea of having the NPS DSO and Diving Control Board do an actual investigation or review of the existing or newly provided evidence following the NPS's actual investigative protocols. In other words, "Go away. I have to look at a guilty plea in another fentanyl case."

The Medical Examiner flat out refused to change the false narrative of how Linnea died in his autopsy report, which is the official state record of her death. Interestingly, he did not know there was a video until I told him about it nearly one year later. Later on, he said he watched the video but it didn't change his conclusion that she drowned. Nobody was asking him to change his conclusion, which is not in dispute, but he didn't seem to understand that it was painful for the family to know the official state record of their daughter's death is irrefutably contradicted by the video he never looked at before the report was written.

PADI published a thinly veiled "Lessons Learned from Accidents" article that poorly fictionalized Linnea's incident in their members' magazine.

I have been speaking to a Congressman who sits on the House Committee with oversight of the Department of the Interior. He is interested in getting answers from the DOI Inspector General about why the DOI botched the investigation so badly. We plan to pursue this after the new Congress is sworn in this January.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

I have been speaking to a Congressman who sits on the House Committee with oversight of the Department of the Interior. He is interested in getting answers from the DOI Inspector General about why the DOI botched the investigation so badly. We plan to pursue this after the new Congress is sworn in this January.

Thank you for continuing to push tirelessly for truth and for change. We have GOT to do better. Our governmental and our training agencies need to be better than this.

 

[Subfiend]

Here are pertinent excerpts from the transcript of the NPS ISB's interview of the Instructor. This transcript was produced by the NPS in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.

INTERVIEW WITH DEBBIE SNOW
11-18-20/10:48 am
Case # NP20154473

“Don’t talk to the Lawyers or their Investigators”

1451 Q1: What did PADI say? Did PADI say they were going to do an investigation?
1452
1453 A: Yes. So...
1454
1455 Q1: Did they - did they tell you they we’re going to send an investigator out here?
1456
1457 A: They said they might.
1458
1459 Q1: Oh.
1460
1461 A: They said they can’t, um, when Pat talked to her she said, “I don’t feel like the
1462 family is going to sue.” But I said said, “Well there’s a lot of lawyers out there
1463 looking for money so...”
1464
1465 Q1: It’s not the family you got to worry about. It’s the lawyers that wanna sue.
1466
1467 A: Yeah. I said, “So, you know, I don’t know.” So, she says, “Well there’s a
1468 chance that they might send an investigator out there to talk to you guys.” She
1469 said, “So don’t be surprised.”
1470
1471 Q1: Um, what is that guy’s name, do you remember the guy in south Florida that
1472 does investigations for PADI?
1473
1474 Q: No, I think he’s like their personal attorney that does...
1475
1476 Q1: So, I - I’ll just tell you and this is just - I can’t give you legal advice but what I
1477 will say is I would personally I would not work with PADI’s investigator. But
1478 you being certified with PADI you want to keep that rating...
1479
1480 A: Mm-hm.
1481
1482 Q1: ...I’m not really sure what choices you have.
1483
1484 A: Yeah.
1485
1486 Q1: Um, as a law enforcement officer, I will not work with him...
1487
1488 A: Mmhmm.
1489
1490 Q1: ...period. You want to talk to him...
1491
1492 A: Hmm.
1493
1494 Q1: ...want to share information, I - I would love to tell you why, um, but I’m just
1495 telling you now...
1496
1497 A: Yeah.
1498
1499 Q1: ...I’m sure you guys have probably...
1500
1501 A: Yeah.
1502
1503 Q1: ...formulate it in your mind, uh, but it’s not, uh, it’s not gonna happen. So, I’m
1504 just telling you that just in case you get a knock at the door and it’s him.
1505
1506 A: Yeah.
1507
1508 Q1: Just keep that in mind.


2938 Q1: So, don’t, uh, I mean, don’t expect any phone calls from us anytime soon.
2939 Um...
2940
2941 Q: But...
2942
2943 Q1: ...can’t say that for the family, attorney guy. We have...
2944
2945 A: Yeah.
2946
2947 Q1: ...we have spoken to him once, um, I don’t wish to speak with him again so...


2955 Q1: But I wouldn’t be surprised, that attorney has his own investigator.
2956
2957 A: Uh-huh.
2958
2959 Q1: Um, do you remember his name Jake?
2960
2961 Q: No.
2962
2963 Q1: Because I don’t remember his name either. Um, I wouldn’t be surprised if
2964 they don’t reach out to you guys. Yeah.
2965
2966 A: So, I’m just not gonna talk to anybody until I talk to the owner. And I need to
2967 tell the boys that. Did you - did you tell them that by any chance?
2968
2969 Q1: No.
2971 A: Okay.
2972
2973 Q1: I’m telling you because you’re the instructor at the dive shop and if I talk to
2974 the owner, I’d probably say the same thing. I can’t - legally I can’t say...
2975
2976 A: Oh, yeah, yeah.
2977
2978 Q1: ...but I think so...
2979
2980 A: Okay, yeah, I will tell them.
2981
2982 Q1: I think...
2983
2984 A: Um...
2985
2986 Q1: ...your most concern’s going to be PADI right now. Um, once that - once that
2987 is over then...
2988
2989 A: And I heard that before.
2990
2991 Q: Uh-huh.
2992
2993 Q1: And you may luck out man. I - for your sake but I hope you do. But, um, and
2994 PADI, NAUI, SSI or any of those guys are going to look out for themselves...
2995
2996 A: Exactly.
2997
2998 Q1: ...first.
2999
3000 A: Mm-hm.
3001
3002 Q1: So, uh, that’s just very unfortunate, uh, but again, um, I’m - I’m sure as
3003 instructor you carry insurance...
3004
3005 A: Mm-hm.
3006
3007 Q1: ...um, insurance for you. That’s pretty much required.
3008
3009 A: Yeah.
3010
3011 Q1: So, if anything they’re - they’re gonna go after that.
3012
3013 A: Yeah.


INTERVIEW WITH DEBBIE SNOW (cont'd)

“The Discovery of Linnea’s Dive Computer in Debbie Snow’s Possession”

2059 Q1: Do you have a way - do you have a way your way of getting me the data from
2060 your dive computer for that dive?
2061
2062 A: Let me see.
2063
2064 Q1: Um, and I - we’ve got thumb drives if you - if you’ve got that ability.
2065
2066 A: Just bring me my computer and her computer and her computer and my iPad.
2067
2068 Q: Her computer?
2069
2070 A: Yeah. I have her computer.
2071 Q: Oh, you have Linnea’s 2072 computer? Awesome.
2073
2074 Q1: Yeah, if you - if - if I can get that diagram that day, I don’t need anything else.
2075
2076 A: What I did is I took pictures of it.
2077
2078 Q1: Did you?
2079
2080 A: So, I can send the pictures to you.
2081
2082 Q: Oh cool.
2083
2084 Q1: Oh excellent, yes. That’ll work great.


2220 Q1: Which - those are wrist computers. Is that how it works?
2221
2222 A: Yes
2223
2224 Q1: Which one’s yours and which one’s hers?
2225
2226 A: This one is mine, and this one’s hers.
2227
2228 Q1: And they just work the same?
2229
2230 A: Yes. The only difference is that mine is air integrated so that I can tell how much
2231 air I have.
2232
2233 Q1: Oh, that’s cool.
2234
2235 A: Yeah, these do not.
2236
2237 Q1: And do you mind if we take a picture of hers and just the prep bag and - and
2238 I’ll have - I’ll give you - you can either text me the pictures or email them to
2239 me what - whatever’ s best for you.


2655 Q: Do you have the data- or do you have like the stuff to download hers too or do
2656 you just look...
2657
2658 A: No you just look..

 

[kammel78]

Unfortunately, the short answer is no. Here is a summary of the government and industry responses so far:

That was my fear and we appreciate the additional clarity. Sigh.

I know lots of like minded divers who would love to contribute in any way to systemic change, but outside of government regulation, any possible self-correcting mechanisms in the industry are in the hands of either training agencies or dive shops, both of which are for profit systems in a declining industry which benefit from economy of scale and cost reduction. Neither of which incentivizes stricter instructor standards, higher instructor discipline rates (suspension, pulling rating, etc), higher dive shop discipline rates, longer classes, keeping classes separate, etc.

Aargh, I know...we've had this same conversation over and over again. As much as a tragedy like this can be a "learning moment" for those of us reading this, I also feel there's a bias that those of us that take these to heart to avoid tragedies like this aren't the ones who need to learn these lessons the most to avoid these. I just want something...more.

 

[KeelsonGraham]

Unfortunately, the short answer is no. Here is a summary of the government and industry responses so far:

We tried to get some acknowledgement of responsibility from the NPS, but all we received were some off-the-record apologies from a couple of people saying they wish their colleagues had done a better job.

The ISB supervisor called me to express his displeasure with the family complaining about the ISB's feckless non-investigation, saying it would be best if I advised them to stop doing so. I told him not to hold his breath.

The AUSA could not be bothered. She said they would always be willing to look at new information if we had any, but she went on and on about having "prosecutorial discretion" and she was thoroughly disinterested in the idea of having the NPS DSO and Diving Control Board do an actual investigation or review of the existing or newly provided evidence following the NPS's actual investigative protocols. In other words, "Go away. I have to look at a guilty plea in another fentanyl case."

The Medical Examiner flat out refused to change the false narrative of how Linnea died in his autopsy report, which is the official state record of her death. Interestingly, he did not know there was a video until I told him about it nearly one year later. Later on, he said he watched the video but it didn't change his conclusion that she drowned. Nobody was asking him to change his conclusion, which is not in dispute, but he didn't seem to understand that it was painful for the family to know the official state record of their daughter's death is irrefutably contradicted by the video he never looked at before the report was written.

PADI published a thinly veiled "Lessons Learned from Accidents" article that poorly fictionalized Linnea's incident in their members' magazine.

I have been speaking to a Congressman who sits on the House Committee with oversight of the Department of the Interior. He is interested in getting answers from the DOI Inspector General about why the DOI botched the investigation so badly. We plan to pursue this after the new Congress is sworn in this January.

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to keep this issue alive. The incident is a stain on the diving community and a stain on law enforcement. We have to keep hammering at this one until the guilty are brought to account.

 

[KeelsonGraham]

Here are pertinent excerpts from the transcript of the NPS ISB's interview of the Instructor. This transcript was produced by the NPS in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.

INTERVIEW WITH DEBBIE SNOW
11-18-20/10:48 am
Case # NP20154473

“Don’t talk to the Lawyers or their Investigators”

1451 Q1: What did PADI say? Did PADI say they were going to do an investigation?
1452
1453 A: Yes. So...
1454
1455 Q1: Did they - did they tell you they we’re going to send an investigator out here?
1456
1457 A: They said they might.
1458
1459 Q1: Oh.
1460
1461 A: They said they can’t, um, when Pat talked to her she said, “I don’t feel like the
1462 family is going to sue.” But I said said, “Well there’s a lot of lawyers out there
1463 looking for money so...”
1464
1465 Q1: It’s not the family you got to worry about. It’s the lawyers that wanna sue.
1466
1467 A: Yeah. I said, “So, you know, I don’t know.” So, she says, “Well there’s a
1468 chance that they might send an investigator out there to talk to you guys.” She
1469 said, “So don’t be surprised.”
1470
1471 Q1: Um, what is that guy’s name, do you remember the guy in south Florida that
1472 does investigations for PADI?
1473
1474 Q: No, I think he’s like their personal attorney that does...
1475
1476 Q1: So, I - I’ll just tell you and this is just - I can’t give you legal advice but what I
1477 will say is I would personally I would not work with PADI’s investigator. But
1478 you being certified with PADI you want to keep that rating...
1479
1480 A: Mm-hm.
1481
1482 Q1: ...I’m not really sure what choices you have.
1483
1484 A: Yeah.
1485
1486 Q1: Um, as a law enforcement officer, I will not work with him...
1487
1488 A: Mmhmm.
1489
1490 Q1: ...period. You want to talk to him...
1491
1492 A: Hmm.
1493
1494 Q1: ...want to share information, I - I would love to tell you why, um, but I’m just
1495 telling you now...
1496
1497 A: Yeah.
1498
1499 Q1: ...I’m sure you guys have probably...
1500
1501 A: Yeah.
1502
1503 Q1: ...formulate it in your mind, uh, but it’s not, uh, it’s not gonna happen. So, I’m
1504 just telling you that just in case you get a knock at the door and it’s him.
1505
1506 A: Yeah.
1507
1508 Q1: Just keep that in mind.


2938 Q1: So, don’t, uh, I mean, don’t expect any phone calls from us anytime soon.
2939 Um...
2940
2941 Q: But...
2942
2943 Q1: ...can’t say that for the family, attorney guy. We have...
2944
2945 A: Yeah.
2946
2947 Q1: ...we have spoken to him once, um, I don’t wish to speak with him again so...


2955 Q1: But I wouldn’t be surprised, that attorney has his own investigator.
2956
2957 A: Uh-huh.
2958
2959 Q1: Um, do you remember his name Jake?
2960
2961 Q: No.
2962
2963 Q1: Because I don’t remember his name either. Um, I wouldn’t be surprised if
2964 they don’t reach out to you guys. Yeah.
2965
2966 A: So, I’m just not gonna talk to anybody until I talk to the owner. And I need to
2967 tell the boys that. Did you - did you tell them that by any chance?
2968
2969 Q1: No.
2971 A: Okay.
2972
2973 Q1: I’m telling you because you’re the instructor at the dive shop and if I talk to
2974 the owner, I’d probably say the same thing. I can’t - legally I can’t say...
2975
2976 A: Oh, yeah, yeah.
2977
2978 Q1: ...but I think so...
2979
2980 A: Okay, yeah, I will tell them.
2981
2982 Q1: I think...
2983
2984 A: Um...
2985
2986 Q1: ...your most concern’s going to be PADI right now. Um, once that - once that
2987 is over then...
2988
2989 A: And I heard that before.
2990
2991 Q: Uh-huh.
2992
2993 Q1: And you may luck out man. I - for your sake but I hope you do. But, um, and
2994 PADI, NAUI, SSI or any of those guys are going to look out for themselves...
2995
2996 A: Exactly.
2997
2998 Q1: ...first.
2999
3000 A: Mm-hm.
3001
3002 Q1: So, uh, that’s just very unfortunate, uh, but again, um, I’m - I’m sure as
3003 instructor you carry insurance...
3004
3005 A: Mm-hm.
3006
3007 Q1: ...um, insurance for you. That’s pretty much required.
3008
3009 A: Yeah.
3010
3011 Q1: So, if anything they’re - they’re gonna go after that.
3012
3013 A: Yeah.


INTERVIEW WITH DEBBIE SNOW (cont'd)

“The Discovery of Linnea’s Dive Computer in Debbie Snow’s Possession”

2059 Q1: Do you have a way - do you have a way your way of getting me the data from
2060 your dive computer for that dive?
2061
2062 A: Let me see.
2063
2064 Q1: Um, and I - we’ve got thumb drives if you - if you’ve got that ability.
2065
2066 A: Just bring me my computer and her computer and her computer and my iPad.
2067
2068 Q: Her computer?
2069
2070 A: Yeah. I have her computer.
2071 Q: Oh, you have Linnea’s 2072 computer? Awesome.
2073
2074 Q1: Yeah, if you - if - if I can get that diagram that day, I don’t need anything else.
2075
2076 A: What I did is I took pictures of it.
2077
2078 Q1: Did you?
2079
2080 A: So, I can send the pictures to you.
2081
2082 Q: Oh cool.
2083
2084 Q1: Oh excellent, yes. That’ll work great.


2220 Q1: Which - those are wrist computers. Is that how it works?
2221
2222 A: Yes
2223
2224 Q1: Which one’s yours and which one’s hers?
2225
2226 A: This one is mine, and this one’s hers.
2227
2228 Q1: And they just work the same?
2229
2230 A: Yes. The only difference is that mine is air integrated so that I can tell how much
2231 air I have.
2232
2233 Q1: Oh, that’s cool.
2234
2235 A: Yeah, these do not.
2236
2237 Q1: And do you mind if we take a picture of hers and just the prep bag and - and
2238 I’ll have - I’ll give you - you can either text me the pictures or email them to
2239 me what - whatever’ s best for you.


2655 Q: Do you have the data- or do you have like the stuff to download hers too or do
2656 you just look...
2657
2658 A: No you just look..

WTF! A ******* law enforcement officer giving the perp advice. How much more corrupt can this be?