Suit filed in case of "Girl dead, boy injured at Glacier National Park

[Seaweed Doc]

Thanks for sharing these videos. And thanks to Mr. Concannon for the explanations and for occasional comments on this thread. It's refreshing in an era of "no comments" for legal reasons to see them.

One very minor quibble I hate to raise because there are so many more important and relevant issues: I don't think it's a violation of at least the then-current standards for a student to have a camera. I couldn't recall anything about it in the PADI Instructors' Manual. I did a quick search of the 2021 manual and couldn't find any references to cameras except when they were required (e.g., teaching underwater photography). I also searched for "camera" in the Guide To Teaching (2019 edition) and the only reference I found was related to allowing students to play with them during the CW dives.

I'm not arguing it's something I would allow. I specifically have told students "no" in open water classes. On the other hand, I had a student doing Deep Diver with me who had completed the first 3 dives very successfully. Long story, but for our last dive we decided to modify our original plan and look for sixgill sharks. The student asked if he could bring a camera (GoPro). My judgment with that student was that he could easily handle the "task loading" this would entail, and I didn't see a reason not to let him. (And this was one-on-one instruction, so I'm focused on him for the whole dive.)

On the other hand, while not explicit I read into the standards that as an Instructor I can almost never carry a camera. That may be overstating it, but better safe than sorry. I need to have my attention on the student. (I've made exceptions on this where I'm pretending to be a tourist to be guided by my DM candidate.)

All to say this seems kind of like a judgement call. Maybe never a good idea, but not against standards? Am I wrong? If so, I really need to know so critique is appreciated!

Edit to add: If it should be in the standards but isn't, I'd welcome explicit language to that effect.

 

[kammel78]

On the other hand, while not explicit I read into the standards that as an Instructor I can almost never carry a camera. That may be overstating it, but better safe than sorry. I need to have my attention on the student. (I've made exceptions on this where I'm pretending to be a tourist to be guided by my DM candidate.)

All to say this seems kind of like a judgement call. Maybe never a good idea, but not against standards? Am I wrong? If so, I really need to know so critique is appreciated!

Not to derail but I can't imagine attorneys happy with the idea of having video evidence of any potential accidents as in this very case.

 

[inquis]

Not to derail but I can't imagine attorneys happy with the idea of having video evidence of any potential accidents as in this very case.

I expect half would, half wouldn't.

 

[kammel78]

I expect half would, half wouldn't.

After the fact, yes half would. In lieu of having any control over what video evidence would support, I'd assume most training agency attorneys (which I'm assuming are focused on minimizing legal risk) would rather have as little evidence as possible. Burden of proof, right? I could be way off, though, I don't sleep at Holiday Inns.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I expect half would, half wouldn't.

I have always been a proponent of using video during teaching (though I never got there personally). I was planning to set it on a tripod, have a large micro SD card and have the students perform skills in front of it. Though I'd have an assistant manage that, so that after dives we can do a review during the SI.

I know of some instructors who are dead set against it as "it would be used against the instructor." My question for you is, what the hell are you doing in your classes? I feel video would exonerate me if there was ever an incident.

Granted, I'm nitpiking but I wish it wasn't referred to a "Drysuit Death" as if the drysuit killed her and not her supposed instructor. "Training Death", "Tragedy", etc. Yep, I know I'm critiquing YT titles but I'd hate the main takeaway from casual divers to be "drysuits can be dangerous" instead of "sh**ty instructors/dive shops can be dangerous".

I wish they'd stop the nonsense that the drysuit crushed her. No, it doesn't crush at depth. It becomes extremely difficult to move. I was rushing once to catch up with some folks and didn't attach my dry suit hose. The deeper I descended, the more difficult it was to move (duh!). Max depth was 110-ish feet.

Linnea had a poorly fitting dry suit, so the mobility would have been an even greater issue than it was for me. While my 500 lb deadlift days are a distant memory, having physical strength helps overcome the mobility issues.

From part 1, I learned that Linnea's dry suit was also not fully closed. So overweighted, no ditachable weight, insufficient lift on the BCD, no air, but rather water seeping in the dry suit.

I have much respect for Bob making a valiant effort. That must be a difficult thing to live with. I can imagine he has the daily thoughts of what if. Seeing someone die is unpleasant. When it is the senseless and easily avoidable death of a young person, it is a nightmare.

 

[ginti]

Deleted

 

[MtnDiverColorado]

Most of the skill dives I have done since being originally certified have been regular recreational dives with a skill cut out. For example, 'this will be just a regular recreational dive, but I will periodically act like there is something going on with me, your job is to communicate with me and figure out what's going on, and assist me if necessary..."

For these I would bring a GoPro like I would any other dive. You never know when you'll see something cool. Never had an instructor care or mention it...

 

[Vicko]

Problem with filming is that at some point or another it will distract you for a couple of moments. A couple of distracted moments can be the last nudge needed for the O'**** mountain to come crashing down on you.

Even in this case, after all the lapses in common sense and diving procedures if the instructor was focused on her student this tragedy would not have happened. I can't wrap my head around how a instructor could not notice a student signalling OOG or distress.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Problem of filming is that videos could go online without consent of students, or with a consent that is misunderstood by students. When (not if - WHEN) this happens, it's annoying from a legal perspective as far as I know. And this is fairly common, compared to accidents/incidents.

Taking this to DM to not derail this thread.

 

[Wheeler925]

On dive talk's episode 1, they said her dry suit wasn't dry - that the zipper never fully closed by like 4 inches or something. If this is true, how could she have gotten a squeeze?? Did she come up dry or wet - that would answer this question.