Suit filed in case of "Girl dead, boy injured at Glacier National Park

[CHenderson]

I'm not a Pro diver, and have little desire to become one.

My general opinion of boot camp like courses coming from other industries is that they are great if you are already experienced in the subject matter. And just need to transition over, like in the IT industry doing a Linux Administration boot camp or a C# boot camp; tjese courses are great for seasoned professionals that just need to get up to speed with a new technology, but are horrible for some of the newcomers attempting to use it to boot strap their careers. If I ever got the desire to become an instructor being a moderately experienced diver, I might do a boot camp IDC like RRCDC. But for new inexperienced divers I feel that the longer intern style, which RRCDC offers as well, is more appropriate.

Funny you should mention, am also thinking about getting into coding. I agree mostly but after the experience I had with RRCDC, The Director of Training specifically, I would not recommend. My thoughts are if the upper level supervisors and managers are that way, then it would be unreasonable to expect the instructors to be any different. I am generalizing of course and I only met one of the instructors briefly, but for that kind of money, my expectations were a lot higher. When my gut feeling tells me I'm walking into something or a situation that is bad, I follow my gut. Maybe unreasonably so, but it kept me alive a few times. That and after the military, I now have an insanely low tolerance for unnecessary BS from people who woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Cheers

 

[boulderjohn]

I just know that they, Rainbow Reef, proudly proclaim 100% pass rate.

You may have misunderstood something. Many IDC's promise a 100% pass rate. That means that if they think you are ready and send you off to your instructor examination, they are sure you will pass. That is where they say you will have 100% chance of passing. “If we say you are ready after the IDC, that means we know you will pass the IE.”

 

[Wookie]

You may have misunderstood something. Many IDC's promise a 100% pass rate. That means that if they think you are ready and send you off to your instructor examination, they are sure you will pass. That is where they say you will have 100% chance of passing. “If we say you are ready after the IDC, that means we know you will pass the IE.”

Additionally, most CDC's will offer the IDC over and over again until you pass. I have no personal knowledge of Snow, someone said that she failed something. You can fail skills, but are likely to get lots and lots of practice during your IDC if you are a terrible diver, but if you are a poor test taker, it's really easy to tank either the IDC or the IE. Usually that means you are a poor test taker, not without the knowledge to pass the test.

 

[CHenderson]

You may have misunderstood something. Many IDC's promise a 100% pass rate. That means that if they think you are ready and send you off to your instructor examination, they are sure you will pass. That is where they say you will have 100% chance of passing. “If we say you are ready after the IDC, that means we know you will pass the IE.”

you can go to their website. 100% IE pass rate, with the exception of Dive Theory. Word play, salesmanship (which they are good at). I didn't complete IDC there, giving them a little benefit of the doubt, so it is possible that they deliver and train that well. Doubtful to me IMO. As Wookie suggested however, I got it, it is possible to repeat so their claim of 100% pass "eventually" is plausible.

 

[CHenderson]

Additionally, most CDC's will offer the IDC over and over again until you pass. I have no personal knowledge of Snow, someone said that she failed something. You can fail skills, but are likely to get lots and lots of practice during your IDC if you are a terrible diver, but if you are a poor test taker, it's really easy to tank either the IDC or the IE. Usually that means you are a poor test taker, not without the knowledge to pass the test.

good points

 

[boulderjohn]

you can go to their website. 100% IE pass rate, with the exception of Dive Theory. Word play, salesmanship (which they are good at). I didn't complete IDC there, giving them a little benefit of the doubt, so it is possible that they deliver and train that well. Doubtful to me IMO. As Wookie suggested however, I got it, it is possible to repeat so their claim of 100% pass "eventually" is plausible.

I talked with an Instructor Examiner about this a few years ago, and he was the person who told me that big IDCs do indeed promise a 100% pass rate, and they do deliver on it. They do that by teaching a specific methodology for teaching each skill, and they drill them over and over and over and over until they have it down perfectly. He said that if you were to line up a set of their candidates and have them all demo the same skill at the same time, it would look like a synchronized swimming routine.

He was not in favor of this, BTW. He said that it leads to the misconception that there is only one acceptable way to teach a skill. The good side of that is that the the IDC we were discussing has since switched its synchronized swimming routine from kneeling to neutrally buoyant.

So here is a question. I am sure everyone agrees that Snow's performance was horrific. Can anyone point to anything she did that indicates she did not do a perfectly fine job at an IDC/IE, or that she could not pass an IE if required to today?

 

[formernuke]

There is post above indicating she could.

This seems to be very bad judgment for unknown reasons.

 

[Edward3c]

you can go to their website. 100% IE pass rate, with the exception of Dive Theory. Word play, salesmanship (which they are good at). I didn't complete IDC there, giving them a little benefit of the doubt, so it is possible that they deliver and train that well. Doubtful to me IMO. As Wookie suggested however, I got it, it is possible to repeat so their claim of 100% pass "eventually" is plausible.

Remember if the student pull out its not classed as a centre failure, but the student's. So not counded for the 100%.

 

[Outbound]

I talked with an Instructor Examiner about this a few years ago, and he was the person who told me that big IDCs do indeed promise a 100% pass rate, and they do deliver on it. They do that by teaching a specific methodology for teaching each skill, and they drill them over and over and over and over until they have it down perfectly. He said that if you were to line up a set of their candidates and have them all demo the same skill at the same time, it would look like a synchronized swimming routine.

He was not in favor of this, BTW. He said that it leads to the misconception that there is only one acceptable way to teach a skill. The good side of that is that the the IDC we were discussing has since switched its synchronized swimming routine from kneeling to neutrally buoyant.

So here is a question. I am sure everyone agrees that Snow's performance was horrific. Can anyone point to anything she did that indicates she did not do a perfectly fine job at an IDC/IE, or that she could not pass an IE if required to today?

I seem to recall reading that Snow was going to fail her IE but another instructor said he/she would sign off on it. But I don’t know if this is true or just hearsay that got passed around.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

I seem to recall reading that Snow was going to fail her IE but another instructor said he/she would sign off on it. But I don’t know if this is true or just hearsay that got passed around.

It would have to be more complicated than that. Another instructor can't sign off on anything related to becoming a PADI instructor.

Part of that is semantic: The person that trains the prospective instructor is called a Course Director. I suppose another Course Director could sign off on a skill that the first would not. But I don't know that and it seems like it would be politically ugly within the shop offering the Instructor Development Course. (How do you erase the bad score the first CD gave?)

The person that administers the exam is a PADI employee called an Instructor Examiner. They are NOT affiliated with the shop that ran the course. At a given IE, to my knowledge there is only one instructor examiner. Maybe in south Florida you have enough candidates several are available? But I have a really hard time with one PADI employee "signing off" after another said "fail." According to PADIs standards on this, if you fail the written exams, you fail. (Though I vaguely remember that if you fail one section, they may give you a second shot at it.) If you fail the open water skill teaching, you fail. If you fail a confined water skill, they'll give you a different skill and give you one last chance to pass. Note the teaching skills are pass/fail for each skill. You can't teach one well and fail the other and average out to a pass.

No clue about Snow's situation, but I could imagine a failure and re-do of a confined water skill might turn into a rumor that somebody else signed off when the first person wouldn't.