Student lost - Seattle, Washington

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I am unclear. This post from you seems to be defending Seattle Scuba. You took exception to an attack on Craig Gillespie, who (from what I gather here) IS Seattle Scuba? But then your later posts seem to be supporting the idea that Seattle Scuba has a comparatively poor safety record.

I thought my sarcasm was pretty clear.

I feel like this is a bit of a cop-out for instructors. At least, with SDI/TDI (the agency I teach for), I don't have to "pass" any student. The language of the standards gives me all the leeway I need in order to not certify someone I think is not going to be able to dive safely on their own. Even if they have, technically, done all the skills.

I don't see how one can regularly pass appropriately skilled divers in a resort style course, unless they come in as rock stars. For example, my best student ever was a 14 year old girl who competed in synchronized swimming. She just ate up all the skills with a huge grin on her face. I take no credit for her skills. She would have had a similar result in a resort style course if it was taught neutrally buoyant/trimmed, or once her weighting was fixed. She was exceptional.

Further SDI teaches instructors that the ultimate standard is "would you feel comfortable having this person dive with a member of your family?" I personally don't have any children, so I always look at my students and ask myself, "would I be okay with sending this person to go dive with one of my nieces?"

I have had students that didn't want to be there. Most recently, I had a teenage girl in the classroom. She was getting certified along with her mom, because her mom was making her do it. It was evident that she had no interest and would not put any effort in. I told the mom that if the daughter didn't want to do it, and didn't demonstrate the knowledge and skills, she was not going to get certified. At my shop, there is no pressure to certify anyone that I or any other instructor is not comfortable with. And, we never have more than 4 students per instructor in open water and usually not in the pool, either.

In other words, the instructor is the final authority (at least, with SDI/TDI), and so, if an instructor certifies a bad diver, that is on the instructor. If the student doesn't want to be there, doesn't put in the effort, and is not a safe, competent diver (at the new, Open Water level), then the instructor should not issue a certification.

Of course, I recognize that it does happen that sometimes we'll have a student that does great, gets certified, then goes out into the real world, maybe doesn't dive at all for a while, forgets everything, and then they are a terrible diver. But, I am not sure there is any standard or agency that can really fix that issue.

 

[stuartv]

I thought my sarcasm was pretty clear.

I don't see how one can regularly pass appropriately skilled divers in a resort style course, unless they come in as rock stars. For example, my best student ever was a 14 year old girl who competed in synchronized swimming. She just ate up all the skills with a huge grin on her face. I take no credit for her skills. She would have had a similar result in a resort style course if it was taught neutrally buoyant/trimmed, or once her weighting was fixed. She was exceptional.

Ah. I didn't see any indicators that it was sarcasm. My bad.

I am not sure whether I agree with your second statement or not. We teach neutrally buoyant and properly weighted. Our students do e-Learning, then one afternoon of classroom, then one morning of pool. Then we go to open water at the lake. It is "the norm" for us that our students are certified after 1 weekend (2 days, 4 dives) at the lake. We certainly do have students that we hold back for additional pool time or additional time at the lake before they get certified. But, most, by a healthy margin, are good to go after 1 pool morning and 2 mornings at the lake. Does that count as "resort style"? It seems like it probably does.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I am not sure whether I agree with your second statement or not. We teach neutrally buoyant and properly weighted. Our students do e-Learning, then one afternoon of classroom, then one morning of pool. Then we go to open water at the lake. It is "the norm" for us that our students are certified after 1 weekend (2 days, 4 dives) at the lake. We certainly do have students that we hold back for additional pool time or additional time at the lake before they get certified. But, most, by a healthy margin, are good to go after 1 pool morning and 2 mornings at the lake. Does that count as "resort style"? It seems like it probably does.

Taking this to DM.

 

[Alaskan Scuba Dude]

The blind leading the blind may leave the others behind. Instructor accountability through procedural inexperience is a common factor in diver related fatalities. This is why the pre-brief is crucial. Foremost, it’s the instructor’s role to empathize with the students’ capabilities and vulnerabilities to determine the best resolutions while attaining goals despite minor setbacks. A night dive is a precarious event for divers with little or no experience. After reading the night dive incidents on this forum, my wholehearted recommendation is that you practice your night dive during the day. One diver stated he panicked when his light blacked out and was disorientated—bubbles don’t lie—follow them through touch. Another stated he lost his back up when he fumbled in his pockets. Lanyards (bungee cords) fastened inside the pockets and gear clipped to the lanyard. When frightened, most novice divers will lose their grip. Secure light (clip attached) to an oversized O-ring (placed on your arm) taken from an engine oil filter. Turn on light before removing from harness or before entering water.