Strobe vs video light

[Hanzl]

You can upload your photos to ScubaBoard Here.

I had blacked out the case totally so there was no light leakage. That is key for getting the best picture quality because the leaked light will mess with you and cause back scatter and other lighting oddities. With a fiber sync cord, I did have a few mis-fires from time to time, but that was with a YS-90. I haven't used that for the YS-110. If you are trying to use the slave mode on the strobe without a fiber sync cord, then you can't black out the camera case because it relies on the light from that flash to fire the strobe.

I would be able to tell more based on your pictures. The other thing is your settings. What was your mode you were shooting? If it was auto, that wouldn't be too good because the camera is going to think it is dark and up the ISO, and open the Aperture and slow the shutter down to accomodate. You really need to shoot manual to get the best pictures. That doesn't mean you have to adjust for each shot, many times, you can leave shutter speed alone and adjust the aperture to change your picture exposure.

I'm glad you want to get good strobes, that is a fault many make and not thinking about. The 250 though is IMHO is just too much.

I have some pics I took with the 8000 I could post if you are interested but I wasn't real happy with them at the time. I got a few good ones though.

Rich,

I finally got them uploaded. They are at my hanzl gallery flash issues

I almost always shoot manual because it seems to blur otherwise, even in the pool. As I look at the pics, the settings are:
8) FL 5.8mm, F 4.7, 1/125 exp Not too bad I think
25) FL 17.4mm, F4.3, 1/90
40) FL 5.8mm, F 4.7, 1/125
53) FL 5.8mm, F 4.7, 1/125 Again, not too bad
57(2)) FL 10mm, F 5.8, 1/125 Too bright and back scatter
57) FL 7.2mm, F 2.7, 1/36
91) FL 5.8mm, F 2.5, 1/32
114) FL 5.8mm, F 4.7, 1/125
137) FL 5.8mm, F 2.5, 1/36

I think the film speed was around 200 maybe 400 but probably 200.

I use a fiber sync cord and haven't had too much trouble with that. I'll try to black out the inside of the case. After our talk and more looking I'm leaning towards the YS 110A. Supposed to be better then the 110 and way lighter than the 250 and uses sep bateries.

Thanks,

Hanz

 

[Hanzl]

scubasteve, now that I have figured out how to put them up, I'll see if I have any acceptable ones from last year and will post the new ones the end of JAN when we get home.

Thanks for your help and advise.

Hanz

 

[Hanzl]

Rich,

I have my strobe on the left as far out as the arm goes and angled in and slightly above the camera. I do agree that it does look like it is from the internal flash now that you mention it. Could it be that when I get close the flash comes through the defuser on the case and the strobe is angled too far over to the right so the strobe is only lighting the right 1/2 of the picture and the rest is out of frame to the right? If so, blacking out the case, angling the strobe in to the left, and turning down the power a bit should work right?

All these differnt angles take paying attention to!!! Adding the second strobe should also help I would think.

Hanz

 

[ScubaSteve]

This really sounds like a stupid question but it needs to be asked. The far out shots that I saw may look good only because of the ambient light. The close up shots may have that circle because of the internal flash and the lens prt and WA lens. Now for the question: Are you certain your strobe fired? It sure looks as though the strobe did not fore and the light you got was only from the internal flash.

 

[Hanzl]

Good question. Ya know, that is the original issue I was having, that it seems like the flash would fire, be too bright, so I'd take another one and then get that. I now know that in all likelyhood the internal flash was not recharged yet which also explains why I would take the 3rd one and it would be bright again, almost like the flash worked every other time. That is one of the reasons I was thinking about 2 video lights instead.

Part of the problem may be my strobe power needs to be turned down a bit. I also use the aiming light on the strobe and put it right on the object I'm trying to get a pic of.

#53 had to have some light to get the colors to come out, the same with 8 and I think that the flash went off, but I was further away as well.

Thoughts?

Hanz

 

[ScubaSteve]

So, if I recall correctly, you are using an optic cable to sense the internal flash which then cycles the strobe?

Bottom line is, the strobe will fire much hotter/brighter than the internal flash. If the strobe fired properly, that circle would not appear at all unless it was pointed completely in the wrong direction. What would likely happen if BOTH fired and the internal flah bled out, then you would get a "well lit" object with visible backscatter.

While I am FAR from an expert (which is why I poked fun at myself earlier), my gut tells me your strobe either did not cycle at all or it was not pointed at the subject. Otherwise, it would have provided the light to eliminate the shadow created from the internal flash. OR, it somehow cycled well after the pictured had been captured. I would say it is likely one of the first two problems.

I do not think I am out to lunch but things can always happen....as I said, I am no expert.

 

[rjsimp]

Rich,

I have my strobe on the left as far out as the arm goes and angled in and slightly above the camera. I do agree that it does look like it is from the internal flash now that you mention it. Could it be that when I get close the flash comes through the defuser on the case and the strobe is angled too far over to the right so the strobe is only lighting the right 1/2 of the picture and the rest is out of frame to the right? If so, blacking out the case, angling the strobe in to the left, and turning down the power a bit should work right?

All these differnt angles take paying attention to!!! Adding the second strobe should also help I would think.

Hanz

Okay, there is the problem. That means I was right in that the light we are seeing on the closeup shots is just the internal flash. First thing is to black that sucker out. Make it to where when you shoot a picture (without the external strobe) that you can't see any light leaks in the photo. This is pretty simple to test at the kitchen table.

Second, then test with the strobe and get used to placement and power settings. If you are not using S-TTL, then you will have to control the strobe manually which is not a problem, you just have to be aware of the power setting dial.

Finally, the placement. Your strobe is probably placed pretty good for your wide angle, but it would never be way out on the closeup shots. For wide angle, you look like your settings are nice for exposure and lighting. Maybe a little hot here and there but that is just controlling your power on the strobe. For closeups, you want to speed the shutter way up.. Maybe even a 1/500 and close the aperture down to something that is close to the smallest it will let you set. Then you can pull your strobe in much closer and put it to the side of the subject.

For example, to take a fish shot, you would put the strobe at an angle and off to the side. in this shot I have two strobes. One is on the right and one on the left but very close in to the camera and angled from the sides. You don't want it to be pointing out from the camera as that would cause the back scatter.

By placing the strobes you can create shadows and texture that you wouldn't otherwise see. I would get a stuffed animal and practice on the kitchen table with the strobe placement though and then you can watch the camera speed and see where your delays are with recycle. When the YS-110 shows a red light on the power, it is ready to shoot and I'll bet you will see it pretty much stay red and you're waiting on the camera.

I think the issue can be easily solved from what I am seeing with these steps..

Hope I helped!

 

[Hanzl]

You are correct. It senses the internal flash so I have to use the flash to fire the strobe.

I agree about the hotness of the strobe vs the flash and what you are saying makes sense to me. It seems like there are a couple of problems that are happening at different times and compounding:

1) Stobe too hot forcing a second picture not to mention the internal flash is adding BS
2) Not waiting for the internal flash to completly reset so the strobe doesn't fire
3) Adjusting the strobe to try to get rid of the circle from problem 2 and over-exposing the subject again
4) A dizzing combination of the above tring to fix it

So from the posts it seems like I should blacken the case (as it is clear), turn down the power a bit, and then be more patient and wait the 10 sec or so for the flash to recycle. It must be a down side of the 8000 that even though the pic has been written to the card the flash is not always ready. This should take care of most of my black hole probelms?

That being the case and the higher power and longer length of time I can use a strobe vs video light I should stay with the strobes for still photography? At least that is what I'm coming to believe. Would be cheaper too in the long run I think.

It does seem to only happen when I get close to the subject so everything you guys have been saying is making sense

Hanz

 

[rjsimp]

You are correct. It senses the internal flash so I have to use the flash to fire the strobe.

I agree about the hotness of the strobe vs the flash and what you are saying makes sense to me. It seems like there are a couple of problems that are happening at different times and compounding:

1) Stobe too hot forcing a second picture not to mention the internal flash is adding BS
2) Not waiting for the internal flash to completly reset so the strobe doesn't fire
3) Adjusting the strobe to try to get rid of the circle from problem 2 and over-exposing the subject again
4) A dizzing combination of the above tring to fix it

So from the posts it seems like I should blacken the case (as it is clear), turn down the power a bit, and then be more patient and wait the 10 sec or so for the flash to recycle. It must be a down side of the 8000 that even though the pic has been written to the card the flash is not always ready. This should take care of most of my black hole probelms?

That being the case and the higher power and longer length of time I can use a strobe vs video light I should stay with the strobes for still photography? At least that is what I'm coming to believe. Would be cheaper too in the long run I think.

It does seem to only happen when I get close to the subject so everything you guys have been saying is making sense

Hanz

Yes.. Definitely black out the case. I wouldn't even say this is an option. Work on land with the strobe placement and power settings and get used to how the camera shoots. I would also always shoot the 8000 in ISO 100 if possible anything higher causes a lot of noise in the image.

The main reason I didn't like the 8000 was the time to recycle and the noise in the picture. Other than that, it was a good starting system. Once I moved on though, I went back to my roots from land photography and got an SLR. I had a film SLR in a Ikelite that I never got to do much with, but my D200 and now D300 I love.. We also really like the SP-350's and use them a lot for a small camera.

The bottom line.. Stick with strobes, black out, and practice settings and placement.

 

[Hanzl]

Rich,

I can't use the TTL because of what ever reason that it doesn't work with the 8000. I like the suggestions you gave.

So, you adjust the shutter speed and F-stop to reduce the light when you bring them in and not do much with the power settings on the strobe?

I believe you are correct that the ready light on the strobe is almost always on which confused me when it didn't go off. See my prior post.

I really appreciate you guys taking time to help me out with the question and follow on issues that were really causing my initial problems. That is one of the reasons we really enjoy diving, everyone is ready and willing to help.

I will be trying these ideas this weekend and when I get in the water next week I'll try them there too.

Thanks again,

Hanz