Stress

[InTheDrink]

I'll keep this quick.

#1. About a month ago I got too close to fishermen, and got wrapped up in line and a grand total of 6 hooks in my wetsuit. One I got out myself, the other 5 my kindly buddies sorted out. No big deal.

#2. A guy I work with fishes and advised me last week that mackerel hooks are nasty bastards and generally require a trip to the hospital to get them removed. Getting one in the face would leave nasty scarring.

#3. Last week my buddy, and then I, got caught in line yet again. I had my shears at the ready and with a couple of snips it was a non-event. Except that I didn't have a compass and was relying on my buddy to understand to go east, and away from the wall/fishermen. Which it turns out he didn't. Vis was 1ft, maybe 1.5ft being generous so even navigation was difficult. Anyhow, we stayed far too close to line, hooks and stress inducing sundries.

Anyhow, my breathing went way up. I was pretty annoyed with myself. I don't think I got out of shape or lost buoyancy more than 2ft max but my breathing definitely went up a lot. I had to work hard to relax.

This has led me to thinking even more that adding deliberate stress to dives in safe environments is highly desirable. I just don't see how else you can train and know your body enough to know how it will respond when the doo doo hits the fan.

I know that in many training courses some or a lot of stress is added to ensure you can cope. But I believe that it should be an essential part of (safeish) dives on an ongoing basis. I just don't think you can rely on how you are going to respond to stress otherwise. Perhaps I'm not the cool cat that others are but in this I'm sure I'm not alone.

Discuss.

J

 

[Scott]

<snip>

#3. Last week my buddy, and then I, got caught in line yet again. I had my shears at the ready and with a couple of snips it was a non-event. Except that I didn't have a compass and was relying on my buddy to understand to go east, and away from the wall/fishermen. Which it turns out he didn't. Vis was 1ft, maybe 1.5ft being generous so even navigation was difficult. Anyhow, we stayed far too close to line, hooks and stress inducing sundries.

<snip>

This has led me to thinking even more that adding deliberate stress to dives in safe environments is highly desirable. I just don't see how else you can train and know your body enough to know how it will respond when the doo doo hits the fan.

I know that in many training courses some or a lot of stress is added to ensure you can cope. But I believe that it should be an essential part of (safeish) dives on an ongoing basis. I just don't think you can rely on how you are going to respond to stress otherwise. Perhaps I'm not the cool cat that others are but in this I'm sure I'm not alone.

At what point did you realize you didn't have a compass?
At what point in the pre-dive plan was navigation (who navigates and direction/course) mentioned and agreed upon?

You didn't need a class that had deliberate stress, I think you handle it fairly well. What you needed was to make sure you had all the proper equipment to conduct the dive and that there was some communication going on before you splashed.

 

[TSandM]

I think if you are careful and methodical, but dive often, you are likely to run into minor stressors that will teach you a great deal about yourself and your coping abilities. I've posted about a number of mine -- for example, the vertigo attack at Day Island Wall.

There are also classes that deliberately introduce a degree of stress, even for recreational divers. UTD Rec 2 and 3 are like that, and I would assume that GUE Rec 2, when it is unveiled, will do it, and that Rec 3 already does.

I do not think it is a particularly good idea for recreational divers to introduce stress into their dives deliberately. I DO think it is good to practice emergency skills, like air-sharing, no mask swimming, and free ascents. But do it when you are otherwise unstressed, so those skills become strong and routine, before you need them when the adrenaline is flowing.

 

[InTheDrink]

At what point did you realize you didn't have a compass?
At what point in the pre-dive plan was navigation (who navigates and direction/course) mentioned and agreed upon?

You didn't need a class that had deliberate stress, I think you handle it fairly well. What you needed was to make sure you had all the proper equipment to conduct the dive and that there was some communication going on before you splashed.

I realised I hadn't got a computer before the dive. I dismantled my console and was waiting for the wrist mount to arrive. It arrived the following day - no biggie especially as the vis is so awful so the other diver leading the dive who had two compasses, was fine as a plan. And him leading was agreed up front. What was less fine was that I had mentioned what we do if we got as far as the fishermen and we both agreed it was unlikely we'd get that far. Hmmm. Not that unlikely it turns out. But again no biggie, just annoying my breathing was impacted. And by breathing I'd probably call various other motor or mental facilities into question if this had been a more challenging environment.

J

 

[InTheDrink]

I think if you are careful and methodical, but dive often, you are likely to run into minor stressors that will teach you a great deal about yourself and your coping abilities. I've posted about a number of mine -- for example, the vertigo attack at Day Island Wall.

There are also classes that deliberately introduce a degree of stress, even for recreational divers. UTD Rec 2 and 3 are like that, and I would assume that GUE Rec 2, when it is unveiled, will do it, and that Rec 3 already does.

I do not think it is a particularly good idea for recreational divers to introduce stress into their dives deliberately. I DO think it is good to practice emergency skills, like air-sharing, no mask swimming, and free ascents. But do it when you are otherwise unstressed, so those skills become strong and routine, before you need them when the adrenaline is flowing.

I guess you're right - if you dive often enough you'll get enough of the baby stressors. Which is a good thing.

Curious what you mean though by "I do not think it is a particularly good idea for recreational divers to introduce stress into their dives deliberately". Was the word recreational introduced on purpose and if so why?

The other point I'd have - and it's purely discussion rather than a defined POV on my part - is that controlled exercises/drills are great and I believe in doing them often so they're second nature. But I do wonder whether introducing adrenalin into the situation in a fairly controlled environment along with those tasks isn't a better idea as one's behaviour unstressed compared to stressed can be very different. So I still wonder whether adding in stress to safe dives isn't a bad thing.

J

 

[TSandM]

I think adding stress to safe dives is a very good thing . . . when it's supervised by an instructor who has the capacity to rescue if things go wrong. One does not always know the response of ones students. I am reminded of a story told here several years ago, about a cave student who utterly panicked on a routine class dive, because he saw the distance marker on the main line and realized he was 900 feet from the entrance. He turned and bolted, leaving the instructor with another (not cave certified) student. The instructor was left with a choice to leave the uncertified student alone while pursuing the one who was clearly in distress, or remaining with the calm student without knowing what was wrong with the other one. That's an example of a temperament flaw that showed up without warning.

My husband was presented with a stuck inflator at 80 feet, and was unable to solve the problem fast enough, and ended up doing an uncontrolled ascent from that depth. That's an example of a student not showing expected facility with a task (and probably a judgment error on the part of the instructor, to introduce it that deep).

For technical classes, I think you HAVE to put people through those situations, because knowing your temperament and your capacities is really critical for those dives. For recreational divers, having some of that type of training probably would improve their functional capacity under stress. But it should be introduced and monitored by someone who has the experience and the judgment to keep the stress properly titrated and to make sure it's introduced in the proper environment. I think this is a "professional driver, do not try this at home" matter.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I spent a few years in the military. A good portion of my time was spent as a trainer. The best 'hard core' classes I've ever been a part of have included some very significant stressors, but very few were introduced without building the student up to them in a deliberate and controlled manner with a focus on student safety.

For those that had to make jump to a major stress event due to the nature of the course, there was always clear, specific "outs" for the student to end the situation safely (though usually doing so more than once meant failing the course).

No course that included significant stress failed to include heavy pre-screening to attempt to ensure the students had a high probability of being successful -- though trying to understand who can handle it and who can't is an inexact science at best.

In my mind no aspect of scuba requires significant stress events. Learning how to perform under pressure need not start with putting people into high pressure situations. And all such situations should be assiduously avoided without adequate trained support in case things go sideways.

 

[InTheDrink]

I spent a few years in the military. A good portion of my time was spent as a trainer. The best 'hard core' classes I've ever been a part of have included some very significant stressors, but very few were introduced without building the student up to them in a deliberate and controlled manner with a focus on student safety.

For those that had to make jump to a major stress event due to the nature of the course, there was always clear, specific "outs" for the student to end the situation safely (though usually doing so more than once meant failing the course).

No course that included significant stress failed to include heavy pre-screening to attempt to ensure the students had a high probability of being successful -- though trying to understand who can handle it and who can't is an inexact science at best.

In my mind no aspect of scuba requires significant stress events. Learning how to perform under pressure need not start with putting people into high pressure situations. And all such situations should be assiduously avoided without adequate trained support in case things go sideways.

Thanks for your post. I guess I struggle with a lot of scuba cos a lot of what seems like sense to me seems not to be, or not be received as so on SB, which is essentially my main source of info/peer review.

So I'm left as is so frequent with my assumptions shredded but not entirely convinced with the reasons they are considered not appropriate. Kinda worst case scenario, made more annoying by the fact that I'll probably some day understand why I was wrong, or worse again, why I wasn't.

I appreciate your post but I don't understand it. The first part sees sense in having controlled stressors on other activities, the end part says this has no relevance to scuba. I really struggle with this. In a past life I was a climber and did some fairly hard technical risky climbs. However, even in very stressful situations I never had to worry about whether I was going to be able to breath in 5 breaths time. This is a big deal as it puts a very serious time pressure on your solutions. It's an incredibly powerful variable to diving and I can't see how it can be ignored. You surely need to understand that you can find a solution both when relaxed and when stressed. Moreover, when stressed, if your reactions aren't perfect, you're likely to make a manageable situation unmanageable (e.g. silting up an environment) which essentially invalidates your routine drilling, unless you decide to mix it up and add silt, disorientation etc. - which is essentially what I'm suggesting in the first place.

Anyhow, I'm not trying to disagree. I am pretty new to this and considerably less experienced that most people here, it just seems that my natural tendencies and inclinations are diametrically opposed to many here who are more experienced. Yet some of the rationales offered I can't accept without more exploration of the reasons. So I mean any enquiry in the most respectful fashion possible.

Cheers.
John

 

[Kingpatzer]

I appreciate your post but I don't understand it.

My point is that in courses I've been involved in that are legitimately hard core courses aimed at professionals who need to be able to deal with significant stress involve only a small amount of stress above what the students are already shown to be capable of handling -- and those circumstances involve significant safety measure.

Recreational scuba diving is not an activity that requires that level of stress management. There is nothing involved in recreational scuba beyond the already atypical needs to swim without a mask, or share air, and so on, that a diver would need to deal with. And the infrequency of these types of events is a good indicator of why adding stress is unnecessary.

A good analogy is driving. You can go take an evasive driving course that teaches you how to lose a pursuer and involves large levels of stress. But will you ever use those skills in real life? The answer is simply "no."

The same is true of recreational scuba diving.

The first part sees sense in having controlled stressors on other activities, the end part says this has no relevance to scuba. I really struggle with this. In a past life I was a climber and did some fairly hard technical risky climbs. However, even in very stressful situations I never had to worry about whether I was going to be able to breath in 5 breaths time. This is a big deal as it puts a very serious time pressure on your solutions. It's an incredibly powerful variable to diving and I can't see how it can be ignored.

There are only one way to run out of air in scuba, which should never happen if you are planning your dives and checking your pressure gage. But if it does happen, you are at most a fin kick or two from your buddy. If you're buddy isn't staying with you, you have properly called the dive.

If you're trying to add stress to OOA situations you're missing the bigger picture. The bigger picture being that you have immense control over if you actually run out of air or not.

You surely need to understand that you can find a solution both when relaxed and when stressed. Moreover, when stressed, if your reactions aren't perfect, you're likely to make a manageable situation unmanageable (e.g. silting up an environment) which essentially invalidates your routine drilling, unless you decide to mix it up and add silt, disorientation etc. - which is essentially what I'm suggesting in the first place.

If you have practiced your skills appropriately, you are aren't silting up the bottom, etc.

Now, if you're speaking about technical diving, the equation changes. You will no longer be able to go straight to the surface should you have a significant mechanical failure that empties your tank, or if you have a silt out in a wreck or cave. But those situations don't apply to the recreational level diver. Who is far better served practicing bouyancy control to avoid silting up the bottom than they will be practicing OOA drills in a silt out.

It is precisely because people not only can, but some will, freak out if unnecessary stress is placed on them even in a training situation that such stress is to be avoided. Panic underwater is not always easily controlled by a prepared instructor and the kind of situations you are suggesting involve no physical control of the student by a safety diver or instructor.

Divers without significant experience have no business engaging in those kinds of drills. They are needlessly endangering themselves if they engage in them.