SSI Referral to Padi OW cert

[MartynCC]

In that case don't worry about the Universal referral. The PADI instructor can give you a PADI certificaiton. There is an extra step beyond the norm, but it isn't much. Make sure they know ahead of time what the situation is.

BTW, either certification is recognized around the world, and if you want to take more advanced classes together later on, it is not hard to cross over.

If money is tight then I think the SSI route will prove better for both of you as from what I can see (as a recently qualified SSI instructor) should you choose to do specialty courses such as Deep Diving and say Nitrox...the courses tend to be lower priced with SSI than PADI. Here in the Philippines I reckon it would be about 35% less per speciality

 

[diveprof]

I would suggest that you investigate what the cost of the full SSI cert locally would be with the coupon - are they making up for the discount with a higher price cost for training dives? Then check on the cost of SSI Part I clas and pool and for the referral to a PADI instructor at your vacation location. Then price the PADI OW online course with the cost of completion of training at the resort. This will help compare apples to apples on price. Personally, I advocate completing training where you start.

 

[ccx2]

Two years ago in did SSI class and pool and then went to Mexico on referral to a Padi shop and got certified,they gave me a PADI card. When I got home to Virginia I took the paperwork to my SSI shop and they gave me an SSI cert card also.
At the time,PADI would recognize an SSI referral but SSI would not accept PADI class and pool work and do cert dives, that may have changed.
I will continue up thru PADI.

 

[ccx2]

Two years ago in did SSI class and pool and then went to Mexico on referral to a Padi shop and got certified,they gave me a PADI card. When I got home to Virginia I took the paperwork to my SSI shop and they gave me an SSI cert card also.
At the time,PADI would recognize an SSI referral but SSI would not accept PADI class and pool work and do cert dives, that may have changed.
I will continue up thru PADI.

 

[boulderjohn]

T
At the time,PADI would recognize an SSI referral but SSI would not accept PADI class and pool work and do cert dives, that may have changed.

The PADI policy has not changed.

A PADI instructor who receives an SSI referral, referred to as a universal referral, is officially expected to complete a process to give the student a PADI certification, based on the theory that the instructor who observes and passes the student in the OW dives should be the one who gives the certification and then accepts the liability for any problems that may follow.

The SSI universal system is the opposite--the instructor who observes the OW dives and passes the student is essentially anonymous after that, and the instructor who sent the referral is given the credit for the certification and the subsequent liability.

A PADI instructor is allowed to follow the universal process, but it is not encouraged.

 

[Karibelle]

A PADI instructor is allowed to follow the universal process, but it is not encouraged.

Do you think it is DIScouraged, John?

If the student wants a certification immediately (for example, if they wish to complete their training dives and then do fun dives the next day) and they're dealing with a PADI Instructor, the instructor has no choice but to issue a PADI cert (and do all the extra bits that go along with the crossover, of course). If the student does NOT want their certification immediately, as a PADI instructor you can do the work, complete their paperwork and send it back to the original instructor.

Is it your experience that doing so is actively discouraged by PADI?

kari

 

[boulderjohn]

Do you think it is DIScouraged, John?

If the student wants a certification immediately (for example, if they wish to complete their training dives and then do fun dives the next day) and they're dealing with a PADI Instructor, the instructor has no choice but to issue a PADI cert (and do all the extra bits that go along with the crossover, of course). If the student does NOT want their certification immediately, as a PADI instructor you can do the work, complete their paperwork and send it back to the original instructor.

Is it your experience that doing so is actively discouraged by PADI?

Here is the the first paragraph of official PADI statement from the Professional Website:

PADI is not a proponent of “universal” or “global” referrals for several reasons. Some of these are described in detail below. Generally, our legal advice has been that it will be difficult to defend, especially because the certifying instructor has not seen the student in the open water, and it can result (and has resulted) in customer service problems for the diver. However, if you choose to participate in this referral system, please make an informed choice.​

This is followed by process explanations. Here is another section of the full document:

What problems have arisen from PADI Instructors accepting a “universal” or “global” referral?

So far we have seen customer service issues as well as potential liability issues that may arise after diving accidents suffered by two different Universal Referral divers. The customer service matter was that Universal Referral students had their open water dives conducted by a PADI Instructor, but the original instructor subsequently refused to issue their certifications. The students were understandably upset at everyone involved.

The accident issues are potentially far more serious. The “Universal Referral Manual” provides for two seemingly contradictory circumstances. Students completing the open water dives are given a temporary card that is “valid for 30 days.” On the other hand, the manual also states that it is the original instructor who will issue the certification. The core question that results is whether or not the students being referred are considered qualified to dive once their open water training dives have been completed, but prior to their original instructor issuing certification. Further, it’s possible that these divers may not receive their certification upon returning home.

These issues may be litigated. The two divers, after completing their Universal Referral open water training dives, went diving in the days following the open water training and suffered accidents. If there is litigation, the questions of which party is responsible – the original instructor and his dive store, the open water instructor and his resort, the resort that let them dive on the temporary cards, the original instructor’s agency, the open water instructor’s agency or some combination of all of them – are immense. This entire issue is complex and you should be aware of these possibilities.​

So, based on what I read, I would say it is discouraged.

 

[KY_BOB]

Interesting conversation. In Feb. of this year, a friend of mine went through a SSI O/W class and pool instruction with intentions of doing her checkout dives in FL. It was understood that once the instructor in FL signed off on her, her card would be issued by the original LDS as an SSI c-card.

When arrangements were made for her checkout dives in FL, the instructor quoted his labor price and then the price for issuing a c-card. She explained that she didn't need a c-card, as she would have be issued one when she got back to Kentucky. He said that was fine with him, did the dives, and signed off on the universal referral paperwork. I don't remember the fee for issuing the card but she could have paid it and been issued a PADI card from a FL shop and a SSI card from the LDS.

There seems to be a lot of confusion on who should issue the card. In her case either or both instructors were willing to.

 

[Karibelle]

These issues may be litigated. The two divers, after completing their Universal Referral open water training dives, went diving in the days following the open water training and suffered accidents. If there is litigation, the questions of which party is responsible – the original instructor and his dive store, the open water instructor and his resort, the resort that let them dive on the temporary cards, the original instructor’s agency, the open water instructor’s agency or some combination of all of them – are immense. This entire issue is complex and you should be aware of these possibilities.​

I may have misunderstood the level of "participation" in the Universal Referral program. It was my understanding that we (PADI) did not participate as an organization, and so I would be precluded from issuing the "temporary certification card." Which is why I outlined my belief that if the student DOES want to dive immediately, we'd need to go the PADI route, as opposed to me just doing the work, signing the paperwork, and sending them back to their original instructor.

Your reference above seems to contradict that belief - and say that I COULD issue the temporary card.

kari

 

[ccx2]

Interesting conversation. In Feb. of this year, a friend of mine went through a SSI O/W class and pool instruction with intentions of doing her checkout dives in FL. It was understood that once the instructor in FL signed off on her, her card would be issued by the original LDS as an SSI c-card.

When arrangements were made for her checkout dives in FL, the instructor quoted his labor price and then the price for issuing a c-card. She explained that she didn't need a c-card, as she would have be issued one when she got back to Kentucky. He said that was fine with him, did the dives, and signed off on the universal referral paperwork. I don't remember the fee for issuing the card but she could have paid it and been issued a PADI card from a FL shop and a SSI card from the LDS.

There seems to be a lot of confusion on who should issue the card. In her case either or both instructors were willing to.

Yes that's how it worked for me and I forgot to mention that the PADI shop did charge a small fee for the card. Then when I got back to my SSI LDS and presented the papers they gave me an SSI card that was included in the price of the course.
As I said ,SSI wouldn't have recognized the class work from PADI for a referral to get the Cert dives done with an SSI shop.
KY Bob, I chuckle every time I see that name, it reminds me of the Kentucky Jelly joke, good thing you have your place of origin on your page.LMAO