SS v. aluminum backplate - help me think this through

[Eric Sedletzky]

We’ll… sometimes the grass is greener.

If you want a rig optimized for a particular type of diving, and you do more than one type of diving, you’re going to end up with multiple rigs.

Absolutely true.
There is no one setup that is optimal for every diving environment.
However, I would say that a standard aluminum doubles plate might come the closest. You can use singles and/or doubles. It’s light so you can travel with it to warm water. If it’s too light then you can always add a little weight to your person. If you’re diving cold water and thick suits/drysuit and using an aluminum tank then you’ll need a pretty sizable weight belt/weight system to go with it. If you don’t like weightbelts then this could be an issue.
Aluminum gets a patina though and it can corrode around stainless fasteners and grommets so more care mist be taken. I don’t think there are any strength issues with slots cracking out or other damage occurring, at least I’ve never heard of it.

 

[Rayk]

@Rayk,

I am familiar with the concept of a "balanced rig." A lot of people have a misconception about what constitutes a "balanced rig", and/or just what a "balanced rig" does (or does not do) for a diver. The fact is, 80 cu ft of air/nitrox (for example) weighs approx 6.5 lbs. A diver just might need to overcome some or all of this weight at the beginning of a dive if he/she (or his/her buddy) is struggling at the surface.

rx7diver

Actually it is pretty simple, (no intentions to create arguments here) balanced rig is a rig that correctly weighted diver can compensate weight of the rig with his/her lung volume and fins. In that case diver won’t have any issues in order to maintain buoyancy, swim up to surface from depth and staying surface even with full cylinder and “completely non functional buoyancy device”. If there is no issue with buoyancy device and diver is still having problem to stay on surface with full cylinder, probably that diver is drastically overweighted. Unfortunately, within my very limited experience, majority of the divers are overweighted with “ditch-able” weights. Key is being correctly weighted.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

The term “balanced rig” has changed meaning.
It used to be that the term “balanced” meant that both you and your rig were weight balanced equally so that if you were to remove your rig at depth both you and your rig would be about equally buoyant. Then integrated weights came out in BC’s and this thinking went out the window.
Now in the age of BP/W, GUE, and DIR, the new term “balanced RIG” has an entirely different meaning. First, all ballast seems to be affixed to the rig in some fashion. It appears that weightbelts are not in vogue anymore.
The new strategy is to be able to swim up this monstrous beast up from depth without the use of a wing in case it fails.
I would just consider that properly weighted or minimally weighted. I fail to see where the term “balance” has anything to do with this style of set up. You need just enough weight on to be able to do a safety stop at 15’ with no air in your bc and a near empty tank. If your wing blows out at depth and you manage to get to your stop (15’) and hold it without finning your ass off then you’re properly weighted. No more, no less.
The problem I see is someone with no clue about what proper weighting should be, reads this crap and goes out and piles on a bunch of unneeded extra weight onto a non ditchable rig to be hip and cool like he reads how the “pro’s” do it on Scubaboard, then gets into trouble with a totally overweighted rig and no way to shed weight.

 

[Fibonacci]

Absolutely true.
~snip~
Aluminum gets a patina though and it can corrode around stainless fasteners and grommets so more care mist be taken. I don’t think there are any strength issues with slots cracking out or other damage occurring, at least I’ve never heard of it.

After a few dive trips in both cold and warm tropical waters, my VDH backplate is showing signs of deterioration where the powder coating has rubbed off the edges and white chalky corrosion is lifting it bit-by-bit, despite frequent rinsing after each dive session.
It's no big deal, just annoying but I'd rather not have to deal with it... I need a Ti travel plate now

 

[rx7diver]

... The problem I see is someone with no clue about what proper weighting should be, reads this crap and goes out and piles on a bunch of unneeded extra weight onto a non ditchable rig to be hip and cool like he reads how the “pro’s” do it on Scubaboard, then gets into trouble with a totally overweighted rig and no way to shed weight.

I have your concern, as well. I can imagine an incident unfolding where dropping a weight belt NOW could have an immediate, critical impact on the outcome. But you can't, because the distressed diver doesn't have weights on a weight belt, or maybe the diver's ditchable weights are sequestered in some unfamiliar device(s) festooned to his rig in strange locations, or maybe the diver doesn't have any ditchable weight at all!

I typically dive solo, so if I go to someone's aid, I very likely wouldn't have discussed his/her gear configuration beforehand.

Suppose simply having a snorkel immediately available would have kept the situation from escalating too far too fast. But the diver can't locate his snorkel NOW (because it is sequestered away somewhere because he is wearing a long hose hog-wrapped, and he is stressing).

Et cetera.

rx7diver

 

[brsnow]

I have your concern, as well. I can imagine an incident unfolding where dropping a weight belt NOW could have an immediate, critical impact on the outcome. But you can't, because the distressed diver doesn't have weights on a weight belt, or maybe the diver's ditchable weights are sequestered in some unfamiliar device(s) festooned to his rig in strange locations, or maybe the diver doesn't have any ditchable weight at all!

I typically dive solo, so if I go to someone's aid, I very likely wouldn't have discussed his/her gear configuration beforehand.

Suppose simply having a snorkel immediately available would have kept the situation from escalating too far too fast. But the diver can't locate his snorkel NOW (because it is sequestered away somewhere because he is wearing a long hose hog-wrapped, and he is stressing).

Et cetera.

rx7diver

I would just mention weights from my experience are ditched on accident far more than during an emergency.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

After a few dive trips in both cold and warm tropical waters, my VDH backplate is showing signs of deterioration where the powder coating has rubbed off the edges and white chalky corrosion is lifting it bit-by-bit, despite frequent rinsing after each dive session.
It's no big deal, just annoying but I'd rather not have to deal with it... I need a Ti travel plate now

Powder coating is the worst thing I’ve ever seen when it comes to coating aluminum and salt water.
All powder coating does is puts a thick layer of material on that white rust can form underneath and continue to creep under the powder coating forming huge blisters that hold salty moisture and can pit the aluminum badly. A better solution is to keep the aluminum bare so it can breathe. If you want it pretty then polish it and keep a bottle of your favorite wheel polish handy because you’ll be needing it constantly. The only thing I’ve seen dull out polished aluminum worse than sea water is a heavily chlorinated pool.
When I was in the marine business I saw the aftermath of what was thought of as a great idea when power coating became popular. It was touted as the big answer to corrosion problems. Yeah, well they got that one wrong!
Aluminum is problematic when it comes to the marine environment.

 

[Rayk]

The problem I see is someone with no clue about what proper weighting should be, reads this crap and goes out and piles on a bunch of unneeded extra weight onto a non ditchable rig to be hip and cool like he reads how the “pro’s” do it on Scubaboard, then gets into trouble with a totally overweighted rig and no way to shed weight.

So better to counter crap that and let people dive like anchors rather than address the real issue that poorly educated instructors creates poorly trained divers that doesn’t know what is being correctly weighted, which should be the case from very beginning of their training.

By the way I don’t even bother asking how easy to neglect that someone becomes a diver and goes into water “with no clue about what proper weighting should be” but blame people who is telling them they need to be correctly weighted. And if they encounter a problem that’s not because lack of training and/or knowledge but some forum on internet says their weighting needs to be dialed in properly.

Yeah, I got the point which isn’t much unique, those black wearing evil gas breathing divers are scapegoats since a while anyways.

 

[Nemrod]

A balanced rig seems to drift in definition but that is more likely due to the many configurations folks dive. I do not see how a rash guard and swimsuit diver in 86 degree water could be balanced with a heavy stainless plate and a steel (negative) tank. With either my fabric soft plate or the VDH aluminum mini-plate and an aluminum 80 I might need six pounds in a swimsuit and rash guard. So I could choose instead a heavy stainless plate or my soft plate/VDH plate and have six pounds, maybe four of which I can drop to get positive on the surface if needed. In either case I can swim up, but the stainless plate is still going to be negative on the surface. With a steel tank and a stainless plate I am not balanced and very negative and have no jettisonable weight and while with effort could swim up would be very negative on the surface. For the rash guard/swimsuit diver I would venture a stainless plate and certainly with a steel tank is not balanced.

Now add in a 3/2 wet suit and maybe a 3mm top under the suit and with an aluminum 80 and a stainless steel plate, I could be balanced but I might be without jettisonable weight and a little negative to neutral at the surface depending upon when the dive gets called to end. But with an aluminum 80 and an aluminum plate I would carry weight, probably again around 8 to 10 pounds of which about 6 pounds I would have in QR pouches and I could get positive on the surface if needed even with a BC failure.

I dove the Eagle in Key Largo and wore my 3/2 and a 3mm top in the morning and that afternoon wore a swimsuit and a rash guard for Conch Wall. I varied the weight carried to suit my exposure attire or lack thereof but my rig remained the same and I was balanced in both cases. (Edit to add) And in both cases I could get positive on the surface if needed even with a blown wing. I would also add that if accidental loss of ballast at depth is an issue with your rig then perhaps that needs to be corrected so that it is not. In the case of having ballast on cam bands and in QR pockets or a weight belt, the ballast being intelligently split between fixed and QR, would not typically result in a runaway ascent.

James

 

[johndiver999]

I have your concern, as well. I can imagine an incident unfolding where dropping a weight belt NOW could have an immediate, critical impact on the outcome. But you can't, because the distressed diver doesn't have weights on a weight belt, or maybe the diver's ditchable weights are sequestered in some unfamiliar device(s) festooned to his rig in strange locations, or maybe the diver doesn't have any ditchable weight at all!

I typically dive solo, so if I go to someone's aid, I very likely wouldn't have discussed his/her gear configuration beforehand.

Suppose simply having a snorkel immediately available would have kept the situation from escalating too far too fast. But the diver can't locate his snorkel NOW (because it is sequestered away somewhere because he is wearing a long hose hog-wrapped, and he is stressing).

Et cetera.

rx7diver

I sometimes suspect that many of the divers (especially newer ones) who advocate for (or see no problems with) having no ditchable lead; have never seen a good diver panic scene at the surface. They probably really can't imagine how quickly things go south, how chaotic it is and how a nice little wind chop makes it all the more fun. Of course, probably all the people who don't want ditchable lead don't wear a snorkel on their mask either.

Personally, I gave up on the snorkel about the time I started using a go pro head mount.. it was just too cumbersome with the snorkel on the mask. Probably a weak reason, but I rarely dive with no ditchable lead.

The older divers who are uncomfortable with the idea of no ditchable lead probably came to this mindset not because that was how it was done in the old days, but rather from seeing some F'ed up situations.

From a big picture perspective, wearing a little extra lead that you can drop if necessary, is a lot less troublesome than trying to dive a big steel tank and heavy steel plate while wearing little exposure protection. I would view the later configuration as unwise, unless you are very fat.