Spisni study

[The Chairman]

No correlations like extreme altitude, taught by same instructor who had been booted from UTD, or anything to that effect?

I couldn't tell you who their instructor was, but most of these happened in ocean diving, so altitude was not a factor.

specifically, diving without a computer. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You would be correct. Someone earlier mentioned that diving with tables would be as problematic and in a way, they're right.

I feel I've given my reasons why I don't like or dive Ratio Deco. It's completely fine if you don't agree with them: Dive and let dive. I'm not going around to dive sites and yelling at people who use it. That's not my style. Obviously, it stresses me out and I prefer my diving to be a stress-free environment. RD would not provide that for me and I don't see a single benefit I could derive from using it. I don't like Weinke's modified tables he created for NAUI for different reasons. Hell, I don't like any tables for that fact, especially when I'm doing several multi-level dives in a day. Depth averaging and all that is an anathema to me and the tables weren't designed to accommodate that. The human brain is a marvelous organ with a few serious limitations. I dive in such a way as to ameliorate the impact those limitations will have on my safety and comfort. When I see people who are convinced that they can overcome those mental obstacles, it's readily apparent to me that their brains have already failed them on the surface. Their safety and comfort are their job, though, and not mine. Dive and let dive.

In a discussion yesterday, a valued friend is concerned that I have abandoned my Dive and let dive mantra. I explained that it never was meant to obviate strong opinions about how a person dives. You will find no greater force for teaching trim and neutral diving from the start with me. Kneeling is just not allowed in any of my classes, and yet I feel the shaming done by a number of almost like-minded instructors is counterproductive. I can have very strong opinions about not kneeling and not be a jerk about it. So let me apologize if my strong opinions have come across as intolerance. I don't want to attack people but have no qualms attacking an idea. Sometimes the line blurs a bit both in delivery and reception. In any event, that was not my intent to cajole or browbeat anyone into submission, but rather to adequately express my negative feelings towards RD. Like pink fins, I doubt anyone will be able to change my perspective on utilizing RD in my diving.

 

[PfcAJ]

What is really odd to me (not to rekindle old animosities but it needs to be said) is that for years we heard about DIR being an encapsulation of best practices but you can see this attachment to RD as one example showing that what people call DIR is not keeping pace with developments in diving and, in my opinion, is no longer in a position to claim to be a set of best practices. I think this is regrettable because there is nothing currently out there that can follow it up while at the same time it is increasingly unwise to just accept the system at face value.

R..

Let’s not get it twisted. UTD diverged from DIR long ago despite calling their program “DIR”.

Your absolutely correct that if you aren’t doing a best practice than it isn’t DIR.

 

[ofg-1]

Your absolutely correct that if you aren’t doing a best practice than it isn’t DIR.

And herein lies the entire argument throughout this, and many other, threads. Who is appointed the grand poobah that determines what the best practice actually is?

 

[PfcAJ]

And herein lies the entire argument throughout this, and many other, threads. Who is appointed the grand poobah that determines what the best practice actually is?

Me.

 

[Wookie]

GI3

 

[The Chairman]

And herein lies the entire argument throughout this, and many other, threads. Who is appointed the grand poobah that determines what the best practice actually is?

I am the only one responsible for my diving. This should be a core teaching at every level, including OW. My second rule of diving is I can call a dive at any time, for any reason, no questions asked and absolutely no repercussions. No one can force me to jump in the water.

 

[PfcAJ]

GI3

He doesn’t even dive anymore.

But for real, the guys who decide what is DIR are the ones using the system and doing the dives. The framework and general line of thinking was laid out years ago and the vast majority of it still stands.

 

[Bob DBF]

And herein lies the entire argument throughout this, and many other, threads. Who is appointed the grand poobah that determines what the best practice actually is?

Me.

@PfcAJ has the ultimate answer, when one one takes the risk, one has to make the ultimate decision.

However in making the decision, I would put much more weight on what the NEDU has to say than anyone else. Their entire existence, since Gunner Stillson first headed it up in 1912 has been to keep Navy divers safe, and develop decompression science.
US Navy Experimental Diving Unit

I used the Navy Tables from '62 until I picked up a computer in '08, including dives that would be called tech now. From my history of success with the tables, I would listen to the NEDU advice and research over anyone else's opinion.


Bob
----------------
I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.

 

[PfcAJ]

@PfcAJ has the ultimate answer, when one one takes the risk, one has to make the ultimate decision.

However in making the decision, I would put much more weight on what the NEDU has to say than anyone else. Their entire existence, since Gunner Stillson first headed it up in 1912 has been to keep Navy divers safe, and develop decompression science.
US Navy Experimental Diving Unit

I used the Navy Tables from '62 until I picked up a computer in '08, including dives that would be called tech now. From my history of success with the tables, I would listen to the NEDU advice and research over anyone else's opinion.


Bob
----------------
I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.

I dive fairly often with a particular NEDU researcher. I also tend to defer to his opinion and experience.

 

[Dan_P]

I couldn't tell you who their instructor was, but most of these happened in ocean diving, so altitude was not a factor.
You would be correct. Someone earlier mentioned that diving with tables would be as problematic and in a way, they're right.

I feel I've given my reasons why I don't like or dive Ratio Deco. It's completely fine if you don't agree with them: Dive and let dive. I'm not going around to dive sites and yelling at people who use it. That's not my style. Obviously, it stresses me out and I prefer my diving to be a stress-free environment. RD would not provide that for me and I don't see a single benefit I could derive from using it. I don't like Weinke's modified tables he created for NAUI for different reasons. Hell, I don't like any tables for that fact, especially when I'm doing several multi-level dives in a day. Depth averaging and all that is an anathema to me and the tables weren't designed to accommodate that. The human brain is a marvelous organ with a few serious limitations. I dive in such a way as to ameliorate the impact those limitations will have on my safety and comfort. When I see people who are convinced that they can overcome those mental obstacles, it's readily apparent to me that their brains have already failed them on the surface. Their safety and comfort are their job, though, and not mine. Dive and let dive.

In a discussion yesterday, a valued friend is concerned that I have abandoned my Dive and let dive mantra. I explained that it never was meant to obviate strong opinions about how a person dives. You will find no greater force for teaching trim and neutral diving from the start with me. Kneeling is just not allowed in any of my classes, and yet I feel the shaming done by a number of almost like-minded instructors is counterproductive. I can have very strong opinions about not kneeling and not be a jerk about it. So let me apologize if my strong opinions have come across as intolerance. I don't want to attack people but have no qualms attacking an idea. Sometimes the line blurs a bit both in delivery and reception. In any event, that was not my intent to cajole or browbeat anyone into submission, but rather to adequately express my negative feelings towards RD. Like pink fins, I doubt anyone will be able to change my perspective on utilizing RD in my diving.

I don't have a problem with that. Dive and let dive sounds good to me.