Spin Off: Do you refuse to dive with a DM/quide in a new location?

Use of a DM/guide on new locations


  • Total voters
    139

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Most of the places we go, you'd wind up croaked-out with your face plastered all over CNN with Nancy Grace if you didn't keep the DM in sight.

There's a huge difference between dive locales. You suddenly look up and realize, we're not in Kansas anymore.

I like local DM's. Haven't yet, but if I had any problem with the one I have, I'd get a different one.
 
If you can't follow the rules, find a resort that has rules that fit your values etc.... I have not dove with many DMs but the ones I have dove with have been really good at showing us things that I might have missed. Might just be lucky.
 
It's why I like the keys. THey don't put one in the water unless you ask for one and pay extra. Luckily my keys dives have either been with competent buddies that followed the agreed upon plan or they agreed that on the boat for the crew we were buddies but once in the water it was do what you want and we'll meet back at the upline in an hour. If it's a new location tell me where the cool stuff might be and let me decide what direction I'll go. I can read a compass and know how to find my way back to the boat.
 
In theory, I like the idea of choosing a dive operator who gives you explicit permission to dive unescorted. In practice, it is difficult for a dive operator to do. If he gives explicit permission to me, the beginner diver on the boat will also want to go off on his own. Or I may go on the Scubaboard and say, "the Belize Aggressor allows unescorted diving", and people will be booking trips with the expectation that they can go diving unescorted--despite being woefully unqualified for it--and peterbj7 will be reporting them to the police.:wink:

What I aim for is tacit consent. On the first dive or two I will gradually stretch my distance from the divemaster to test his comfort zone. It's not something I need to plot out; as a slow-moving photographer this will happen naturally. Once I sense he is comfortable, I will do my own dive. If he feels the need to rein me in, so be it. I understand, but it will drastically impact his tip.

The dive briefing is his opportunity to alert me to situations where I can't stray, and I find divemasters are pretty good at doing just that on dives with sharp currents, downdrafts, etc., and of course, it would be stupid to ignore them.

In the Coral Sea I was able to do almost all my dives unescorted, with a same-day, same-ocean buddy.

In Palau, surprisingly, there were dives (Blue Hole/Blue Corner) where the divemaster didn't enforce strict grouping after the first time; he was content to drop us in at Blue Hole and have us hook in at Blue Corner when we got there. If you stayed in sight of the reef (on that day, at least) the current wasn't giving you the option to get lost. (I am fully braced for the howls of disbelief from old Palau hands. Nevertheless, that was my experience.)
In Cocos, strict grouping was required and adhered to.

At most of my other destinations I was able to dive either solo or same-day, same-ocean buddy style with the tacit consent of the divemasters for the majority of the dives.
 
RoatanMan:
Most of the places we go, you'd wind up croaked-out with your face plastered all over CNN with Nancy Grace if you didn't keep the DM in sight.

Why is that?
 
I dove in Antarctica without guide under the coldest and most unknown conditions of the world. I think it is useless to be accompanied by a DM.
 
Why is that?

I was thinking about any number of places we have been recently that have currents that are extreme. I'm not just talking about drifting along in Cozumel. These are usually drift dives, but that's the only similarity....

The Philippines would be a good example. Two extreme sites were Isla Verde and Batangas Channel off of Puerto Galera. On Isla Verde (the far SE end with its virtual underwater waterfall), if you weren't led through it, you would miss crazy dangerous stuff- some to be savored and chased after, some to be skirted around and avoided. Knowing where the current paths were hidden to zoom you back to the boat were handy- on my second trip there, no- I did not need a DM. The SW tip is doable alone by advanced divers, but it presents a lot of challenges for anyone.
It made Blue Corner seem tame.

Batangas Channel was another example. Our dive might have covered 2.5 miles, literally zig zagging and then reversing direction with the current. All quite unintentional and to us- unpredictable. Our DM said he was always amazed as well, but he knew and expected certain patterns to develop as they did. The viz and depth were about 35 feet, and the group became quite separated. We had one superb diver with twins get picked up by a different dive boat about 3 miles from where we got picked up.

Right in the seemingly tranquil Puerto Galera inlet, a wreck dive. Listened to the dive plan, but in mid dive, the current instantly changed dramatically, now pumping at a screaming 4 to 4.5 and the entire dive got turned around about to make it even possible for the boat to get near us on the surface. We hung off of a line like flags and absolutely had to hold our regs and masks in place. It happened within seconds and the DM was able to alert all 6 divers to an unfortunate but necessary abort.

On a more relatable note, how about Tobago? Off of Speyside, there is a dive site called "African Express". You zip along a wall for about 40 minutes and then the DM reminds you to watch for him turn a hard right through an all but invisible slot in the wall. If you miss that slot, you learn why it's called African Express. You are heading towards that other Continent. Any doubters should research the local expert "Man Friday" who disappeared due to currents off this seeming tranquil island.

Any takers for the Red Sea? Most of the dives there, you listen to the briefing and flop in. The coolest dive I did off of Sharm was three trips down to the Thistlegorm wreck. I stuck with the guide like glue- he took us deep into the bowels of this WW II era freighter. She sits upright, mostly intact in 85-100fsw, filled with motorcycles, grenades, jeeps and locomotives. Could I have survived it myself? Sure- but I wouldn't have made it to 1/2 the cool spots. Given that 90% of divers today are blinded by their camera viewfinders, someone who knows where the cool stuff is would be a real plus.

Night diving, once again in the harborage around Puerto Galera- Lots of small boats anchored, some movement. We couldn't understand why we couldn't shore dive (to save money) until we did the first dive. It is very cool muck diving, and by that I mean there are few landmarks and the slope of the sea floor is about impossible to discern. Combine that with a little current, maybe .5, one or two other dive groups that ghost by, and the constant directional changing caused by the frantic "ooh, look at this odd critter" flashlight signals. And odd critters there were! If but nothing else, our DM knew how to reconnect with our pick up boat amid the 25 or so other small boats that were anchored there and spending the night. No way would I go without a guide- this time not a safety issue as much as it was an issue of ease.

I have done, who knows, maybe 250+ night dives off of CoCoView's Prince Albert Wreck and another 500 during the daylight. It is dead simple, easy to navigate- but still, people screw up. How hard can it be? 50 feet away from your room, an anchor chain starts in 4 feet of water and leads through the reef and is attached to the side of a 140 foot ship. It is marked with reflective flags all the way out. The ship is upright and intact- there should be no confusion as to where what is, yet people still get very mixed up and turned around.

Do you need a DM for this dive? Not really. But I will tell you... I offer to lead night dives for a $25 charity donation to the families who have lost their DM fathers. I am booked every night, sometimes two night dives. Almost universally the reason they decide to go along on my guided tour is that they are fearful of becoming disoriented (on a dive they have seen a few times during the day) and that they want to see the cool stuff. You have to drag them away from their fascination over that Caribbean Lobster, but after my wife gets her "pet" Octopus to come out and wrap around her arm and face, they begin to get the idea. Their air consumption, anectdotally, is lower in most cases- I would assume that this is due to being more at ease without the inherent fear of being lost in the dark.

Most people are so busy diving they can't see what's in front of them. Most- from the moment they jump in- are so busy trying to figure out where the boat (or exit) is, they get lost.

I agree, in many instances, guided dives are not necessary, and I understand the resistance to being "dictated to" as espoused in the Cayman Soto/Red Sail day care centers. But not only do you have to look at the environment, you must seriously consider what style and ability of diver that they attract at any given dive op/island/locale. Dive Ops react in relation to the ability of visiting divers that they historically attract and have the greatest experience in observing. Want proof? Go to Club Dread or on a Pod People Paddle.

Did you know that 93% of SCUBA divers consider themselves Above Average ?

I hear even mild grumping about a DM's mothering instinct ~ I remind that fellow from the big city... If the DM came to visit you in Metropolis- how many times would you be steering him away from things (like that bus as he steps off the curb) or pointing out where the best hot dog might be acquired? We each are experts in our own back yards.
 
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I similarity....

The Philippines would be a good example.

. Listened to the dive plan, but in mid dive, the current instantly changed dramatically, now pumping at a screaming 4 to 4.5 and the entire dive got turned around about to make it even possible for the boat to get near us on the surface.

Yep, currents can change in channels there like turning an electric fan from low to high in seconds.
In cases like this, experienced divers will certainly survive. It's not big deal to drift along, pop your smb and wait for the boat. But it makes it harder for the boat crew when divers from the same group can end up a mile or more apart based on what choices they made relative to current direction change or velocity. You're really putting your life in their hands at that point in trusting that they can read, or know the currents well enough that they can find you. You can choose to follow the DM or put your faith in the boat crew.
 
It's why I like the keys. THey don't put one in the water unless you ask for one and pay extra

Although i was extremely disappointed by the diving in the keys the fact they didnt force a guide on you was nice. You got allocated pairs, a decent brief, a maximum time and just went diving. Exactly how it should be.
 
You're really putting your life in their hands at that point in trusting that they can read, or know the currents well enough that they can find you. You can choose to follow the DM or put your faith in the boat crew.

Our twin tanked "lost" buddy I mentioned did just that. Several dive boats saw him, but didn't recognize him or his SMB and just putt-putted away. One drew close enough to hear him hollering so they knew he wanted a ride... any ride!
 

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