Spare air VS pony? Why?

[String]

DeepScuba once bubbled...
Well String Ole Pal, I only dive in the real world..low vis, cold, current, haven't been in a wet suit in a year, ya know REAL diving............

What's your drill for buddy separation?

If you cant admit or see that under some circumstances buddy separation can and does occur i dont believe you. You also didnt answer my question about only carrying 1 depth gauge, 1 computer, 1 watch, 1 compass between the 2 of you if separation can NEVER happen.

As for separation drills. Depends on the time and pre-arranged times.

Normally its raise up slightly off the bottom, turn a torch on and do a circular search for 60 seconds before ascending normally to the surface taking into account any stops.

Its those minutes following the search and during surfacing a redundant air source could be vital. Although equipment failiure is rare it can, has and does happen so needs to be planned for. Its not a case of failing to check SPGs - even the best regs occasionally get uncontrolled freeflows.

 

[DeepScuba]

I never said that String.

What I did say was, keeping the entire dive in context, under what horrendous day of diving could one imagine that you got separated from your buddy, lost the use of your air supply (Either via reg failure or brain failure).............

Any air is better than no air, the question was, is Scare-Air the answer.

It was answered on page 1, it's not worth the price.

As to the "pony" being to bulky. My opinion is it's not. I use a 40 on every dive, and I don't even feel it.

Regards

 

[String]

Fair enough, i was responding to the "get a new buddy quote"

That aside it seems we're agreeing. If the worst does happen a Pony v Spare Air is no real contest. One can get you up safely with stops, the other will bend or kill you from any real depth.

Nightmare dives do occasionally happen.

 

[PhotoTJ]

Don Burke once bubbled...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3632659998&category=1300

Hey, if nothing else, it's a very cool gadgit. I was the winning bidder, at $41.99 It will be fun in the pool.

You may begin the laughter at your convenience.

 

[Don Burke]

PhotoTJ once bubbled... Hey, if nothing else, it's a very cool gadgit. I was the winning bidder, at $41.99 It will be fun in the pool.

You may begin the laughter at your convenience.

Actually I think they were headed in the right direction with more gas. If they'd gone for a single tank of about 13-15 cubic feet, they might have sold me one.

In any case, congratulations on your find. It will be a good prop clearing/pool drain cleaning/smoky room escape tool.

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

I bring a pony bottle along with me in any of the following instances:

1) Anytime I am diving with anyone but my fiance' (in other words, most people's buddy skills leave much to be desired, unlike my fiance' who is a great buddy, the best)

2) Any night dive (in which case both my fiance' and I each wears a pony)

3) Any solo dive (I mean ... if I were ever to consider diving solo since solo diving is taboo and should not be practiced)

4) Any deep dive (defined as around 100 ft, in which case I would donate my primary air supply to my buddy, and utilize my pony for my own egression, since air sharing from deep dives can be very unrelyable).

5) Anytime I am wearing a wetsuit for scuba together with a single bladder wing.


Now how big a pony?

6 cu ft for dives of 30 ft or shallower

13 cu ft for dives of 30 ft to 100 ft

20 cu ft for dives of 100 ft to 150 ft (150 ft is NOAAs limit for tech air or EAN25 diving).

The basic rule I follow is that I need about 3 minutes to ascend slowly and safely in the case of an equipment failure OOA ascent.

6 cu ft = 3 mins at 30 ft (RMV 0.75 & 2 ATAs ambient)

13 cu ft = 3 mins at 100 ft (RMV 0,75 & 4 ATAs ambient)

20 cu ft = 3 mins at 150 ft (RMV 0.75 and 6 ATAs ambient)

These are minimum sizes for cool headed technical divers. Your size may vary, or even double.

A 3 cu ft "spare air" would last 1.5 mins at 30 ft, barely enought time to ascend from 30 ft at 30 ft per minute. Any deeper, and you will run out of air on your spare air can. Not worth the money.

A "spare air" is one of those gadgets that does not work and is not safe to rely on. So it is best to stay away from the can and rely on a pony instead.

 

[PhotoTJ]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...

A "spare air" is one of those gadgets that does not work and is not safe to rely on. So it is best to stay away from the can and rely on a pony instead.

This is the kind of blanket statement the makes the 'state-ee' sound foolish. Ask anyone who is still alive because of one, and I think you'll find they do work. Ask anyone who did not have one when they absolutly needed it...oh, wait, you can't ask them, can you? And show me a documented case where someone died because of a spare air.

 

[String]

As this thread was comparing them with ponys it needs to be kept in perspective:

Ask anyone who is still alive because of one, and I think you'll find they do work. Ask anyone who did not have one when they absolutly needed it...oh, wait, you can't ask them, can you? And show me a documented case where someone died because of a spare air.

Id venture EVERY person that has manage to survive as a result of spare air would also have survived with a pony.

Also people who DIDNT survive despite using a spare air a higher % of those almost certainly would have done with a pony.

Again as the cost is roughly the same, the pony wins hands down.

For most typical diving situations (ie not massively shallow or tech-deep) a pony will get you out with your stops safely. A spare air will not. Bluntly, it doesnt work.

 

[PhotoTJ]

String once bubbled...

For most typical diving situations (ie not massively shallow or tech-deep) a pony will get you out with your stops safely. A spare air will not. Bluntly, it doesnt work.

OK, now you're qualifing it. With your stops. It was never designed for that. It was designed to get you to the surface. So we are really arguing several different things.

What features are important to you? If you want portability, Spare Air wins. If you want more air, a pony wins.

Now, maybe I'm reading into this, but it sounds like, from the quote above, that someone isn't planning on using their pony for back up, but part of their gas supply.

I'll say it again; If you want portability, Spare Air wins. If you want more air, a pony wins. (We could also get into need vs. want, but that is a whole other story, if you need it, you'll happily take either.)

I do not plan on OOA, and I don't overdive my ability or equipment. In a no-overhead, entanglement free, 60ft or less dive, I won't need any more than the SA. And that is what most of my dives are. If other paramiters exist, I will dive equipment suitable for those parameters. (Doubles w/pony.)

And now I'm going to put it bluntly. If it gets you to the surface, alive, it f-ing works.

 

[DeepScuba]

Just don't forget to tell them, O-ring.........

(10-18-2003 08:26 PM)

With the Nitrox thing starting to enter the equation.......

With the probs of Ox-Tox and breathing the wrong gas at depth, you're now entering "Tech" land.

Who's out of air? Who's grabbing who's pony/stage???

This is now no longer a Pony vs Scare-Air "thing".