Spare Air - Sorry!

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In the situation you describe, diving with a familiar, practiced buddy, who is careful and has good skills, I would not carry additional redundant gas.

If I did carry gas, I would carry at least 13 cf (assuming no deeper than 60') to make sure I had time to sort out the issue that led me to be out of gas AND out of buddy (the only circumstance in which you are going to need the auxiliary supply) and get me to the surface without doing the whole ascent in dread of the "last breath".

My husband and I just dive adequate gas supplies, and don't worry about it.
 
I see the SA bashers are out again with their same lame dis-proven arguments.

1) Panicked SAC :nope: No need to panic when you have enough gas to surface
2) I can CESA from 60' (but SA is too little air)
3) Full breath gives you 30-60 seconds (what if you dont get a breath?)
4) All kinds of scenarios where SA would not work none of them 60' max dives with a buddy in clear water.
5) I'm too experienced or good for SA. Fine, don't use one.

A larger pony is better than a SA, SA is better than nothing at all. I'm not going to retype it all from earlier threads but ask yourself why these other people bother on every SA thread to argue ad naseum against SA? Some type of agenda.
 
I see the SA bashers are out again with their same lame dis-proven arguments.

Exactly where did you disprove the calculations that show a SA would not have sufficient gas for a diver below 90' with an accelerated SAC?

You are entitled to your opinion, but please don't rubbish or insult those members who opt to express theirs - especially when those opinions are substantiated.

As an AOW qualified diver, with sub-50 dives, I would question if you've had exposure to the gas management theory used to critique the capabilities of SA. I would also doubt that you have sufficient experience of scuba emergencies from which to understand the perspectives of those divers who disprove of micro-cylinder air redundancy.

SA marketing preys on novice divers. Point proved.

To recap, for those that don't pay attention:

1) Panicked SAC
nope.gif
No need to panic when you have enough gas to surface


Ignorance is bliss. Most scuba fatalities are avoidable, but panic causes additional problems to unfold. You doubt the reasoning behind calculating emergency scenarios based upon an elevated rate of breathing? I've yet to find a human being whose heart doesn't beat faster in a life-threatening scenario. If you feel you are otherwise, then you need a reality check.

2) I can CESA from 60' (but SA is too little air)

So, the debate would then ask...why do you need a SA?

3) Full breath gives you 30-60 seconds (what if you dont get a breath?)

If, for any reason, you didn't feel capable of conducting CESA from your planned diving depth, then you should have an adequate supply of redundant air.

Full breath or not, the diver should be able to ascend for 1 minute without further air.

Besides, there are very few scenarios that would leave a diver with no breath and no warning.

4) All kinds of scenarios where SA would not work none of them 60' max dives with a buddy in clear water.

Yes, because a Spare Air is pointless in perfect conditions, shallow water and with an attentive buddy. The debate exists if you need adequately sized redundant air for those scenarios where you couldn't reach the surface via CESA and where you may not rely on a buddy to air-share.

5) I'm too experienced or good for SA. Fine, don't use one.

I've not seen that written on any thread concerning SA. I think you have interpreted that. You have interpreted wrongly. Don't be insecure of other people's experience. If I join a motorcycle or climbing forum, then I would respect your advice. Don't let you ego drag you into close-mindedness.

...ask yourself why these other people bother on every SA thread to argue ad naseum against SA? Some type of agenda.
I dive every day. It's my job. I take my safety very seriously. I wouldn't use SA, for the reasons I have already expressed. As a dive educator, I take safety education very seriously. That is my agenda.

The people you are labelling as 'SA bashers' just happen to be a wide cross-spectrum of divers with significant experience in this field. In contrast, your experience and education in scuba diving is minimal and at novice level. Perhaps that might cause the slightest inclination to self-examine your stance?

What's more...the random bad-mouthing of people with opposing view points illustrates a very crude and unsubstantiated understanding. If you cannot debate factually, based on reasonable evidence, then please don't resort to childish name calling.
 
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Read my earlier threads on this topic. I have as much personal emergency, risk, and stress management experience as anyone on this thread guaranteed. And thankfully much of it is from other much more dangerous activities like IFR flying, pro racing and instructing motorcycles/cars, rock climbing, rappelling, and other extreme sports so I don't have diving pro blinders on. One good ad hominem deserves another.

You are the one throwing insulting rubbish. Furthermore, I'm not going to type 100 threads trying to "prove" the facts to a small but vocal minority of pro divers on SB.

Fact, ceteris paribus (all other things being equal) in many situations a SA is better than nothing at all.

BTW, your post proved my point number 4. You made up a situation at 90' with accelerated SAC to "prove" SA wont work.

Carry on.
 
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I can only laugh in response to that delusional and egotistical out-burst. I think any thread viewers will know what to make of your 'opinions'.

As a 'rock climbing instructor' would you argue that an 'anchor' made of aluminum foil was better than no anchor at all?

As a 'motorbike instructor' would you argue that a crash helmet made of glass was better than no helmet at all?

Unsuitable is unsuitable. SA is unsuitable for the purposes that divers carry them.

.Fact, ceteris paribus (all other things being equal) in many situations a SA is better than nothing at all.

Fact: Facts aren't facts unless they are substantiated and tested.

Fact: 200 litres of air is not sufficient for an ascent that required 600 litres of air.

BTW, your post proved my point number 4. You made up a situation at 90' with accelerated SAC to "prove" SA wont work.

I didn't make anything up. Unlike you, I don't post hypothetical nonsense as if it were fact. Neither do I confuse my own opinions with facts. I've got enough experience diving to know what happens, so I don't need to use my imagination. Neither do the other posters on this thread that understand scuba diving beyond novice level. Likewise, I am educated to calculate relative SAC, RMV along with the effect of pressure at depth, air density and other pertinant issues such as cylinder capacity. These all seem to be critical aspects of the debate that you ignore. If you don't know...then just ask.

Quite frankly, I think you are a troll. Go back to your 'extreme life' with all the other Walter Mitty sad-cases...

"Carry on". bwahahaha
 
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More ad hominem, good job! So far all you've done is made up a ridiculous scenario for the OP and attacked me. Bravo!

For the record thread viewers can look up the other threads where finally some anti-SA pros conceded to the points made there.
 
Dude....go and learn about SAC and RMV. Your experience on motorbikes and cliff faces won't have covered that. Then come back here and add an intelligent point if you still have one.
 
depending on the profile. get the right size bail out bottle.

IMHO
0-33' = 3cf
34'-66' = 6cf
66' - 99' = 12cf
100' - 133' = 24cf
 
The size of the bottle is really determined by what type of OOA emergency you have. If you OOA at a depth and you are only going to have to swim to the surface direct, then the capacity of the bottle is dependent on the depth/SAC. If you are worried about entanglements, Deco Stop, lost in a Wreck, your pony bottle will be different.

One size isn't going to fit all. I have 19, 30 and 40 bottles to be used in different scenarios. Techies and Cave divers will have totally different setup.
 
...Unsuitable is unsuitable. SA is unsuitable for the purposes that divers carry them...

Fact: Facts aren't facts unless they are substantiated and tested.

Fact: 200 litres of air is not sufficient for an ascent that required 600 litres of air.


Andy, I think I know where you are coming from, but I don't agree. As I've previously mentioned, the SA device isn't ideal or even the correct one in all circumstances. It does however provide a credible secondary air source for the OP, under the conditions described. To say that any piece of equipment is unsuitable across the board just isn't substantiated and certanly can't be deemed to be a fact.

SA has in-fact saved divers lives. I'm happy to do an ascent on 200 litres of air that "requires 600 litres." In an emergency ascent, there is no rule that says that you have to breathe continuously. I'm happy to accept one more breath of air in any situation where none would be otherwise available. :)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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