Sorry another tipping question

[miketsp]

A group of us from the UK have booked a whole boat liveaboard for October 2007, we paid our initial deposit of £250 last October and due to pay a further £500 this October.

Our tour operator has just been informed by the boat operator of the following The owners have decided to impose this mandatory charge on British and European groups so they are adding £206 to the cost of the holiday.

Now we have no objection to tipping for good service but is this just a a get out clause for poor service.

I haven't done a liveaboard in the Americas before so I have no idea what is a normal tip for a 10 day trip. Some of the cruise forums say about $10 per day per person is the norm, but I would welcome your comments.

Some of my group are not at all happy with this and there is talk of mutiny

I came across a similar thing with cruise ships. We did a couple of cruises out of Miami and the recommended tipping levels were quite high. The travel agent used to give us a sheet of paper with the recommended values for table waiters, cabin steward etc. payable at the end of the trip.
Now some of the same cruise lines have been operating down here in Brazil for a few years and at the end of the first year's operations they all imposed up-front tipping. Obviously the level of spontaneous tips was not what it was when sailing out of Miami.

EDIT:
Well I wrote the above and then saw that up-front tipping via the credit card now seems to be more common:

The following is from Carnival ...

The total amount will be $10 per guest, per day, which breaks down as follows:

* $5.50 pp/pd for Dining Team Service (Headwaiter and Waiter)
* $1 pp/pd for Bistro Service (Waiter/Cooks)
* $3.50 pp/pd for Cabin Services (Cabin Steward)

Tipping the Maitre D' is strictly at guest's discretion, based upon services rendered.


The following is from HAL ...

Gratuity Policy

Our crew works very hard to make sure that every aspect of your cruise meets the highest standards. Gratuities are the customary means of recognizing and showing appreciation for good service. To save guests the need to locate crewmembers and determine the appropriate gratuity amount, a gratuity of $10 per day is automatically added to each guest’s shipboard account on a daily basis.


The following is from Disney ...

Per Guest per cruise 3-Night 4-Night 7-Night
Dining Room Server $11.00 $14.75 $25.75
Dining Room Asst. Server $8.00 $10.75 $18.75
Dining Room Head Server $2.75 $3.75 $6.50
Stateroom Host/Hostess $10.75 $14.50 $25.25
Dining Manager Your Discretion
Room Service Your Discretion
Palo Gratuity included
Vista Spa & Salon Your Discretion
Babysitting Gratuity not expected
Shore Excursions Optional; not included in shore excursion price.

The above works out to about $10.90 per day.


The following is from NCL ...

SERVICE CHARGE
A fixed service charge of $10 per person, per day will be added to your onboard account. For children ages 3-12, a $5 per person per day charge will be added to your onboard account; there is no charge for children under the age of three.


The following is from Princess ...

Princess has made it easier than ever for passengers to recognize the waiters, assistant waiters and cabin stewards who serve them during their cruise. The line recently expanded its automatic gratuity program to cover all service staff with a convenient daily charge of $10 per person, which is placed on the passenger's shipboard account.


The following is from RCI ...

What are gratuity guidelines for cruises?
So that you can thank those who have made your cruise vacation better than you could have imagined, we've developed these gratuity guidelines:
Suite attendant: $5.75 USD a day per guest
Stateroom attendant: $3.50 USD a day per guest
Dining Room Waiter: $3.50 USD a day per guest
Assistant Waiter: $2.00 USD a day per guest
Headwaiter: $.75 USD a day per guest

Look familiar?


The following is from Celebrity ...

It is customary to offer gratuities to staff members you feel have given you exceptional service and personal attention. Celebrity suggests the following guidelines:

Adults

* Waiter: $3.50 p/day
* Assistant Waiter: $2.00 p/day
* Butler (suites only): $3.50 p/day
* Assistant Maitre'd: $0.75 p/day
* Stateroom Service: $3.50 p/day
* Stateroom Service (ConciergeClass): $4.00
* Assistant Chief Housekeeper: .75 p/day

Children

* Waiter: $1.75 p/day
* Assistant Waiter: 1.00 p/day
* Butler (suites only): $1.75 p/day
* Assistant Maitre'd: $0.38 p/day
* Stateroom Service: $1.75 p/day
* Stateroom Service (ConciergeClass): $2.00
* Assistant Chief Housekeeper: .38 p/day


The above works out to $10.50 / day for adults and $5.25 / day for children. Add $3.50 / day for adults in suites ($1.75 / day for children in suites) and $4.00 per day for adults in Concierge Class ($2.00 per day for children).

 

[Cacia]

BTW, when my husband saw how much Nekton suggested for a tip when we received the trip information he said, "There is no way I'm tipping $200 for a dive trip." When the trip was over he happily put $200 in the envelope and so did I, the crew definitely earned that $400.
Ber :lilbunny:

my, I must be getting old. I cannot even imagine tipping in addition to my husband....:11:

too funny, that I am shocked. Guess I am not a modern woman. a bull riding, modern woman. Men ...are for tipping, aren't they? .. Do I get a tip?

 

[jcpol]

my, I must be getting old. I cannot even imagine tipping in addition to my husband....:11:

too funny, that I am shocked. Guess I am not a modern woman. a bull riding, modern woman. Men ...are for tipping, aren't they? .. Do I get a tip?

HOW SEXIST!!!! *LOL*

Here's my tip: Drink milk, for strong bones and teeth.

I get tired of having to think about tipping....but I suppose we should - it's only fair.

 

[Web Monkey]

Terry, it is instead of paying a tip at the end of the trip. Apparently us Brits and Europeans aren't quite a generous as you guys across the pond.

Americans usually tip well because part of our culture is paying a below-living wage to many service employees like waiters, dive masters, etc., so we just figure it's part of the cost of whatever we're doing.

That said, I have quite a wide range of tips, depending on how much the person helped, or how much they needed (I tip extremely generously on islands that have been recently destroyed by hurricanes, since I *know* where the money is going).

As for the previous post about cruise ships charging you up front for tips, it is optional.

I always go to the desk and re-align the money so that the people who are actually working hard get what they deserve, and people who are just riding the "Gravy Train" like the (Matre' D) get very little. The Matre D tip really annoys me because he already gets an excellet salery even by land-based US standards, has virtually no effect on any service I receive, and certainly doesn't need any tips.

On your trip, I'd tell the company that you're paying the agreed-upon price and if they don't like it, you would be happy to cancel the credit card charges and use one of their competitors.

If they give you a hard time, tell them you can give them world-wide publicity on a Scuba Diving site in about 45 seconds, and whether it's Good or Bad is their choice.

Terry

 

[Ber Rabbit]

my, I must be getting old. I cannot even imagine tipping in addition to my husband....:11:

too funny, that I am shocked. Guess I am not a modern woman. a bull riding, modern woman. Men ...are for tipping, aren't they? .. Do I get a tip?

We always pay our own way on vacation, the tip sheet said 10% of the trip price per person so even if he'd paid for both of us his tip would still have been $400. Most of the time when we travel he puts incidentals (meals/hotels/cars) on his credit card and I pay him my half when the bill comes in; couldn't afford to travel otherwise I'd much rather cover the tip than the meal/vacation/etc if I can get away with it
Ber :lilbunny:

 

[JulesVerne]

As an FYI - i just came back from a trip on the Turks & Caicos Explorer II. Suggested tip was 10% of the trip cost (excluding airfare), most guest were around that number, some people a tad higher, some people a tad lower (I was able to glance over a summary sheet). In my opinion, the variation reflected more the relative wealth of each guest than the level of satisfaction as everyone was treated similarly.

I am from Europe but have lived in the US for 10 years and am still struggling with the concept of "suggested" tipping. I can understand (but not agree) to a fuel surcharge but I would make a huge fit if I had a service charge included on my bill before the trip. The staff would have limited incentive to provide good service to the non-US guest. I knpow that's easy to say but I would cancel my trip with this company as this is a material change in terms. Your local UK tour operator should be your advocate in this process.

At the same time, if service is appropriate (I am not saying amazing), you should be paying 10% (the suggested number), not another number that you feel is right based on where you come from. The 10% should be factored in your budget for the trip - you shouldn't see it as an optional/add-on, it's just that the payment of this 10% is differed to the end of the trip.

my 2 cents or pennies - sorry for rambling

 

[vondo]

Terry, it is instead of paying a tip at the end of the trip. Apparently us Brits and Europeans aren't quite a generous as you guys across the pond.

I wouldn't be that hard on yourself. It's that you are not used to it and the ship's reaction may be due to the fact that you (Europeans in general) sometimes don't think about tipping.

I took a (non-diving) trip with a bunch of Brits. As the token American, I was put in charge (by the clients) of suggesting to people what they should tip and collect it. They just weren't comfortable with it.

That said, 30% seems high, but maybe you have more to pay after the next 500 pounds (?), so maybe what they are charging is more like 10-15%?

I do think it's crass to demand people pay the tip. I would hope making people aware that a tip is expected if the trip is good and what the suggested amount is would be enough. I'm going with Blackbeard's in the Bahamas this October. I believe they suggest 15% and give you the option of charging it to your c.c. before hand, but do not demand it.

Cheers,

Eric

 

[vondo]

I am from Europe but have lived in the US for 10 years and am still struggling with the concept of "suggested" tipping.

I struggle with it a bit as an American, on the otherhand... The first time I went on a guided tour I didn't think about it and didn't plan for it. When it came down to it, I was happy to give our excellent guide $50-100, I just hadn't thought of it.

Now imagine the guide who takes a large group out and his pay assumes he gets tips, but the group forgets or doesn't know. He doesn't get paid that week, effectively. It's a lot worse than a person or two leaving a restaurant without leaving a tip. In some sense, a suggestion like this is just easier on everyone involved and one hopes you get better service because the crew knows you know.

 

[Fionab]

That said, 30% seems high, but maybe you have more to pay after the next 500 pounds (?), so maybe what they are charging is more like 10-15%?


Cheers,

Eric

I may not have expressed myself properly, the next payment of £500 is just another deposit, the balance is to be paid about 10 weeks before the trip next year.

We are more annoyed about being discriminated against. I am happy to pay 10%, but I would prefer that to be my decision based on my holiday experience.

Thanks for your input.

I agree with Terry(webmonkey) I went on a Caribbean cruise once and was very surprised we were expected to tip the Maitre d and for what standing around doing nothing.

On the other hand people should be paid a decent wage and not expect guests to make up the difference although I am not really talking about this trip as frankly $20 for each crew member is little more than a couple of beers.

It isn't the 10% which has annoyed people just the way it has been done.

I am a member of another dive forum and we don't threaten operators with bad publicity, so that isn't an option.

 

[vondo]

I may not have expressed myself properly, the next payment of £500 is just another deposit, the balance is to be paid about 10 weeks before the trip next year.

I kind of thought that.

We are more annoyed about being discriminated against. I am happy to pay 10%, but I would prefer that to be my decision based on my holiday experience.

I agree. You might get word to the boat operator that if they insist, they will get their 10%. If they relent and show you a good time, they might easily get more than 10% as you are generous folks.