Solo Technical Why?

[Aotus]

I support solo diving staying in the technical section.

Even though solo diving can be done with a single tank set up and in shallow reefs, it still requires a "technical" mindset. More attention to detail, a strong self reliance, and adequate skill level.

It is closer to cavern/intro level cave, than advanced buoyancy and night diver, and deserves that respect. Solo diving shouldn't be seen in the same light as the other "advanced' specialties.

And even if I don't see solo diving as technical, I don't see a good enough reason to move it from its current location. Those that are interested in solo diving will find the forum on their own.

Carrying a buddy bottle and not having another person to run through a plan with, that equates to cavern or intro level cave?? No disrespect intended to you, but if you have any experience with those courses or in those environments then I think you'd have to be either a super-hero among rec solo divers, or you had an alarmingly different experience in cave training than I did to make that comparison. I really don't mean to pick a fight, I just cannot comprehend that comparison.

More attention to detail, a strong self reliance, and adequate skill level.

this can be said about anything, but let's think about that.

• More attention to detail, without that at Intro, you can run off the line or make a mistake on a jump and you're now on the clock to find you way out, or you die. Where is that analog in rec limits?
• No overhead means self reliance can always mean quitting the dive and heading up. Cavern and Intro teach you that you have to solve the problem, no ditch and run options. In response to a cave student's question "how long do I have to find the lost line" the instructor said, "the rest of your life."
• Adequate skill level doesn't really matter in solo, does it? I mean, it should, but if you kick a reef or plop down on top of it then some people get angry but the diver can still see, and there are no lost line drills on a shallow reef. And if you're in OW and you see you've overstayed and have little NDL time? start heading up. In a cave, well, you can turn but it might be a while before you can start chipping away at that impending deco obligation...hope you have the gas for that...

Adding solo to tech is one thing, but solo in itself, especially as (relatively) newly defined for OW rec divers is not technical diving. The one argument I can understand for not moving solo into AOW area is to keep the shiny thing away from the newest divers, or to normalize it for them. But, that is an entirely new discussion. Frankly, I find solo to be easier because there is less task loading if you aren't watching out for your buddy, knowing his/her gear, any relevant medical history, keeping track of their condition during the dive, assuring clear communication, and being ok with ending the dive if something happens off-plan. It would be good not to give divers with inadequate experience the temptation to try it and find that without a second head that it's easier (as long as their one head doesn't forget to turn their gas on or something like that). But i digress, that is for another discussion.

 

[CptTightPants21]

Carrying a buddy bottle and not having another person to run through a plan with, that equates to cavern or intro level cave?? No disrespect intended to you, but if you have any experience with those courses or in those environments then I think you'd have to be either a super-hero among rec solo divers, or you had an alarmingly different experience in cave training than I did to make that comparison. I really don't mean to pick a fight, I just cannot comprehend that comparison.


this can be said about anything, but let's think about that.

• More attention to detail, without that at Intro, you can run off the line or make a mistake on a jump and you're now on the clock to find you way out, or you die. Where is that analog in rec limits?
• No overhead means self reliance can always mean quitting the dive and heading up. Cavern and Intro teach you that you have to solve the problem, no ditch and run options. In response to a cave student's question "how long do I have to find the lost line" the instructor said, "the rest of your life."
• Adequate skill level doesn't really matter in solo, does it? I mean, it should, but if you kick a reef or plop down on top of it then some people get angry but the diver can still see, and there are no lost line drills on a shallow reef. And if you're in OW and you see you've overstayed and have little NDL time? start heading up. In a cave, well, you can turn but it might be a while before you can start chipping away at that impending deco obligation...hope you have the gas for that...

Adding solo to tech is one thing, but solo in itself, especially as (relatively) newly defined for OW rec divers is not technical diving. The one argument I can understand for not moving solo into AOW area is to keep the shiny thing away from the newest divers, or to normalize it for them. But, that is an entirely new discussion. Frankly, I find solo to be easier because there is less task loading if you aren't watching out for your buddy, knowing his/her gear, any relevant medical history, keeping track of their condition during the dive, assuring clear communication, and being ok with ending the dive if something happens off-plan. It would be good not to give divers with inadequate experience the temptation to try it and find that without a second head that it's easier (as long as their one head doesn't forget to turn their gas on or something like that). But i digress, that is for another discussion.

I'm a little confused as in the end you actually agree with point of view.

Notice I never directly compared it to cavern/intro to cave, only said it was closer to those than "advanced buoyancy and night diver".

But lets compare skills that were covered in my Solo course vs what was covered in my Cavern/Intro.

1. Gas Planning
2. Redundant equipment
3. No mask swims,
4. Line work--tie offs, shooting a bag, etc
5. Valve failures
6. Line entanglements and resolving them
7. Search patterns
8. Proper fining techniques, multiple kicks
9. Light failures, deploying back up

All were covered in BOTH my solo and cavern/intro course and there maybe 1 or 2 skills I am forgetting.

Some skills that were covered in cavern/basic, but not solo
1. Lost line drill-
2. OOA swims on the line (obviously no buddy)
3. Lost buddy drill
4. Cookie and marker placement

So yeah, pretty similar except for a few cave nuances.

Also, lets not forget that cavern is a recreational course and basic cave only allows you to follow the gold line, 1/6ths, and no deco.

 

[Aotus]

I do not agree with your point of view, for clarity. And, I wholly reject your argument that even some superficial similarity in the drills learned in OW solo are comparable to the OH environment. The limits for cavern/intro-certified divers are not full(fool) proof, and the environment is inherently more dangerous and requires greater preparation. In a recent accident, it has been assumed that the Intro diver may have been following the gold line but didn't notice a 90 degree turn, and was suddenly off the line and did not make it out. In fact, I think there are two like this in the last year, and one a little while back where two divers and dpvs missed a turn, but everyone made it out of that one, with some help.

To follow up on your point about some differences, I believe the buddy drills in cave courses increase the complexity of the training and the task loading, thus distinguishing the technical training further from rec solo.

Lastly, cavern is not universally taught as a rec level course. Having taken it twice, once as a PADI course that was marketed to me as adequate for preparation for the next level (was absolutely not), and once from a skilled PSAI cave instructor, I can attest to the fact that "cavern class" comes in hugely different grades. Similar, it sounds, to solo training if it yours was indeed as thorough as cave training. That said, I still cannot tell whether you had amazing solo training or poor cave training. I think we'll just have to disagree on the point, until someday when maybe we have a chance to dive together, both solo of course

 

[Lorenzoid]

Carrying a buddy bottle and not having another person to run through a plan with, that equates to cavern or intro level cave?? . . . .

Gosh, I don't have Solo Diver training, but I would sure hope it involves a lot more than "carrying a buddy bottle and not having another person to run through a plan with." I admittedly can't think of what kind of material could be included that would match the amount of material and practical skills taught in, say, Cavern, but maybe that's just because I don't know what I don't know.

Maybe the conundrum in this topic is that there are people who have arrived at calling themselves Solo Divers through a wide variety of paths, ranging from having completed a couple of days of formal training to simply going off and diving without a buddy.

Edit: Looks like CplTightPants' post above answers some of what's taught in Solo. I'll back out of the debate here, as I have no experience with Solo, but I do find it interesting.

 

[Aotus]

Notice I never directly compared it to cavern/intro to cave, only said it was closer to those than "advanced buoyancy and night diver".

That's true, and I am probably harping on the distinction too zealously. I just see the distance between the technical rhealm and rec solo as being too vast to compare with rec solo. It may, in part, be due to my own limited observations of what passes for "good skills" among rec divers.

Gosh, I don't have Solo Diver training, but I would sure hope it involves a lot more than "carrying a buddy bottle and not having another person to run through a plan with." I admittedly can't think of what kind of material could be included that would match the amount of material and practical skills taught in, say, Cavern, but maybe that's just because I don't know what I don't know.

Maybe the conundrum in this topic is that there are people who have arrived at calling themselves Solo Divers through a wide variety of paths, ranging from having completed a couple of days of formal training to simply going off and diving without a buddy.

Edit: Looks like CplTightPants' post above answers some of what's taught in Solo. I'll back out of the debate here, as I have no experience with Solo, but I do find it interesting.

Point well taken. and it helped me to see that I should back off a little bit without knowing a lot more about the diligence of solo training. I still believe that is isn't inherently tech, but I don't have anything against the idea that some rec-trained (no formal tech training) divers are technical in mindset, or quality of skills. For that matter, I'm quite certain that there are tech-trained divers with much more experience than I have who are not tech-minded...I've eaten their silt.

 

[mdb]

That's true, and probably am harping on the distinction too zealously. I just see the distance between the technical rhealm and rec solo as being too vast to compare with rec solo. It may, in part, be due to my own limited observations of what passes for "good skills" among rec divers.

I have been a solo diver for over 30 years.

It do believe there is a difference between rec and tech when it comes to solo diving.

Open water, even fairly deep-200FSW + ok with me.

Solo in a cave-no way.

I do admire those who feel competent to dive solo in all environments.

I am not one of those divers.

For me solo is peace and ease, tranquility.

 

[NAM001]

So by that definition everyone has the potential to be a Solo Diver at some point? Then why have a special forum for Solo Divers at all? I think I would agree with @Nemrod that the definition (in my opinion) of "Solo Diving" involves an element of intent, and losing one's buddy doesn't fit that definition.

My intent of the comment was when you loose you buddy you are now solo and untrained to do so
as opposed to the solo trained diver that plans to be solo. Recreational diving mostly implies a buddy system. When things go wrong the solution in the rec world is to rely on your buddy. Many divers say they would not do solo diving and therefore the training is moot to them. Hense the comment about the lost buddy and being solo. Train for the environment you may be diving in. SOLO is definitely an environment everyone falls into more often that most would admit to.

 

[Lorenzoid]

My intent of the comment was when you loose you buddy you are now solo and untrained to do so as opposed to the solo trained diver that plans to be solo. Recreational diving mostly implies a buddy system. When things go wrong the solution in the rec world is to rely on your buddy. Many divers say they would not do solo diving and therefore the training is moot to them. Hense the comment about the lost buddy and being solo. Train for the environment you may be diving in. SOLO is definitely an environment everyone falls into more often that most would admit to.

I get it, but it's a matter of semantics to me. As I see it, when you lose your buddy, you are now diving without a buddy and untrained to do so, not "now solo and untrained to do so." As I said, I think the definition of "solo diving" implies intent to dive without a buddy. By my definition, a diver can't inadvertently "solo dive." I think the word "solo" carries a lot more meaning than just diving without a buddy. Therefore, some thought should be given as to which forum it is categorized under.

Again, not being a solo diver, I have no horse in the race, and in that sense I don't care where they put the Solo Diving forum. I do like the idea that "Solo Diving" has some accepted meaning, though--all of terms we use in diving should ideally have well understood definitions--and in that sense the forum it's under does mean something to me.

 

[NAM001]

I get it, but it's a matter of semantics to me. As I see it, when you lose your buddy, you are now diving without a buddy and untrained to do so, not "now solo and untrained to do so." As I said, I think the definition of "solo diving" implies intent to dive without a buddy. By my definition, a diver can't inadvertently "solo dive." I think the word "solo" carries a lot more meaning than just diving without a buddy. Therefore, some thought should be given as to which forum it is categorized under.

Again, not being a solo diver, I have no horse in the race, and in that sense I don't care where they put the Solo Diving forum. I do like the idea that "Solo Diving" has some accepted meaning, though--all of terms we use in diving should ideally have well understood definitions--and in that sense the forum it's under does mean something to me.

I know its semantics,,,, and too many make arguements based on semantics ,,,,when they know the intent.
Solo means by your self. There are also those that define solo as diving with no one around. IE you cant dive solo in a lake with other divers. if you dont have a buddy you are by your self. by your self is solo.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I know its semantics,,,, and too many make arguements based on semantics ,,,,when they know the intent.
Solo means by your self. There are also those that define solo as diving with no one around. IE you cant dive solo in a lake with other divers. if you dont have a buddy you are by your self. by your self is solo.

Well, how it's defined is relevant to what forum it belongs in, which is the topic of this thread.