Socorros Marine Park Fee Alert

[queennyac]

Mexico will no longer be on my live aboard dive boat vacation(s)....that is simply riduculous.....sorry, but true...they are just pricing themselves out of tourisim...idiots....

 

[Cert1967]

My 2020 trip to Socorro with Nautilus was canceled with a credit. So yes, I will be going there again in the future. Maybe 2022.

Well, should we tell your op - Nautilus - that $75 isn't enough for the "clear and tangible price on the value of marine life and it's conservation"?

Surely you will say that a 20% increase isn't enough for your park aspirations - only $150/day, maybe more, will do? Why not an even higher price on the value of marine life? If we save only one manta surely $500 per day is a reasonable price to pay? What's the limit, after all its only a tax.

Why wait until your 2022 trip to pay the increased tax, send some money now - the benefit will be clear and tangible. More money sooner is surely better than later, right?

What do you think the total tax load is on each Socorro visitor? I'll bet that the ops pay other taxes/fees to operate in the park. Of course, they do. Probably a few dollars in bribes? The net proceeds to the Socorro dive op may not sustain their business model. Time will tell how $75/day in tax impacts ops and their divers.

No government entity has ever said that they have enough tax revenue. The government always wants more. If $75 a day is tolerated, an increase will soon follow.

Does Nautilus support the tax increase? I don't think so. In fact, I think they see the daily head tax of $75 as a threat to their business. Same for their competitors?

Dive travelers are likely focused on the total price paid, not the portion comprising taxes and fees. Sure does seem that SB folks are quite price-sensitive, right?

Divers who booked a trip to Socorro at the top of their leisure budget may well be unhappy with the price increase. They didn't plan for the tax and it's a big dollar item. Sure will help relations between the op and the customer?

And how about the crew? Imagine the last day on the boat - when the bills for swag, nitrox, drinks, and the big tax are presented. Ten-days, two divers = $1,500. My guess is tips will suffer and with this crew morale and service.

More taxes = better for the park? Debatable, I should think. Money collected goes fully to the park? We all know this is illusionary.

Here's what @queennyac had to say

Mexico will no longer be on my live aboard dive boat vacation(s)....that is simply riduculous.....sorry, but true...they are just pricing themselves out of tourisim...idiots....

The ops - including your ride Nautilus - grasp the significance of the huge tax increase. I suspect they presented their case against increased taxes to the MX authorities as a threat to their survival. Will their customers pay if they pass it along on top of the trip price? If the dive traveler ponies up for the big daily tax/fee, no doubt further increases will follow along. What is the breaking point where boats give up on Socorro? What then becomes of the marine park?

I suspect that Canadians will be particularly sensitive - as a group - to the price increase. They pay $130 CAD per $100 USD. Will they pay another 20% for a trip to Socorro?

Maybe some light reading

Olivola, Christopher & Sussman, Abigail. (2015). Taxes and Consumer Behavior. 10.1017/CBO9781107706552.021.

"In addition to shaping consumer behavior at the point of purchase, consumers’ responses to taxes affect a variety of consequential decisions"​

Dave, with unchecked price increases the result may well be that the Socorro marine life swims on with far fewer visitors than today, carried by far fewer LAB operators. I'll bet the Chinese fisher fleet will be delighted.

Maybe you should move your trip up from 2022 before your op moves their boat(s) to bluer waters - a more favorable tax environment with higher consumer demand and a fair shot a making a buck.

 

[Cert1967]

double

 

[davehicks]

Well, should we tell your op - Nautilus - that $75 isn't enough for the "clear and tangible price on the value of marine life and it's conservation"?

Surely you will say that a 20% increase isn't enough for your park aspirations - only $150/day, maybe more, will do? Why not an even higher price on the value of marine life? If we save only one manta surely $500 per day is a reasonable price to pay? What's the limit, after all its only a tax.

Why wait until your 2022 trip to pay the increased tax, send some money now - the benefit will be clear and tangible. More money sooner is surely better than later, right?

What do you think the total tax load is on each Socorro visitor? I'll bet that the ops pay other taxes/fees to operate in the park. Of course, they do. Probably a few dollars in bribes? The net proceeds to the Socorro dive op may not sustain their business model. Time will tell how $75/day in tax impacts ops and their divers.

No government entity has ever said that they have enough tax revenue. The government always wants more. If $75 a day is tolerated, an increase will soon follow.

Does Nautilus support the tax increase? I don't think so. In fact, I think they see the daily head tax of $75 as a threat to their business. Same for their competitors?

Dive travelers are likely focused on the total price paid, not the portion comprising taxes and fees. Sure does seem that SB folks are quite price-sensitive, right?

Divers who booked a trip to Socorro at the top of their leisure budget may well be unhappy with the price increase. They didn't plan for the tax and it's a big dollar item. Sure will help relations between the op and the customer?

And how about the crew? Imagine the last day on the boat - when the bills for swag, nitrox, drinks, and the big tax are presented. Ten-days, two divers = $1,500. My guess is tips will suffer and with this crew morale and service.

More taxes = better for the park? Debatable, I should think. Money collected goes fully to the park? We all know this is illusionary.

Here's what @queennyac had to say

​

The ops - including your ride Nautilus - grasp the significance of the huge tax increase. I suspect they presented their case against increased taxes to the MX authorities as a threat to their survival. Will their customers pay if they pass it along on top of the trip price? If the dive traveler ponies up for the big daily tax/fee, no doubt further increases will follow along. What is the breaking point where boats give up on Socorro? What then becomes of the marine park?

I suspect that Canadians will be particularly sensitive - as a group - to the price increase. They pay $130 CAD per $100 USD. Will they pay another 20% for a trip to Socorro?

Maybe some light reading

Olivola, Christopher & Sussman, Abigail. (2015). Taxes and Consumer Behavior. 10.1017/CBO9781107706552.021.

"In addition to shaping consumer behavior at the point of purchase, consumers’ responses to taxes affect a variety of consequential decisions"​

Dave, with unchecked price increases the result may well be that the Socorro marine life swims on with far fewer visitors than today, carried by far fewer LAB operators. I'll bet the Chinese fisher fleet will be delighted.

Maybe you should move your trip up from 2022 before your op moves their boat(s) to bluer waters - a more favorable tax environment with higher consumer demand and a fair shot a making a buck.

I can see that for some odd reason you have decided to make this very personally directed at me. However I am very happy that you found a satisfying relief value for whatever is bothering you. I hope you feel better soon.

Maybe you should go diving? I hear it can be very relaxing. (just not in Mexico)

 

[Cert1967]

I can see that for some odd reason you have decided to make this very personally directed at me. However I am very happy that you found a satisfying relief value for whatever is bothering you. I hope you feel better soon. Maybe you should go diving? I hear it can be very relaxing. (just not in Mexico)

Directed at you? Well, hardly Dave. I wouldn’t know you if you were sitting across from me on a dive boat. Don't fret, I'd give you a hand up if you were in need. Always ready to land a 'helping hand', as is oft said.

What I am referencing is your seemingly cavalier attitude towards a ~20% price increase on an already expensive trip dive trip to Socorro. None of the increase going to the boat owners/employees.

Just to be clear on a 10-day trip the new tax will be $750. The old tax was $26. Almost 30x the old cost, which you are happy to pay.

January and beyond customers will shortly be told to bring ~$1500 per couple in cash for the new tax. I’m sure this will come as an unpleasant surprise, especially if the trip was at the top of a couple’s budget. How many of these folks might not have booked knowing the magnitude of the new tax? How many will balk at the big new tax and ask for their money back? Just what the travel dive industry needs?

Keep in mind that little if any of the increased tax is likely to directly benefit the Marine Park. Your post ignored this. In fact, you assumed that all of the tax - in Mexico no less - would benefit the marine park. Only if pigs take flight!

I spoke with representatives of two of the area LAB operators today. Each expressed concern regarding the magnitude of the increase. The clear message was that the tax amount would impact their business, potential profitability, and perhaps their ability to continue to operate in the area. All of this was communicated to the MX authorities in a joint meeting of the ops and government officials.

The unintended consequences of the huge tax increase could well imperil the jobs of the workers of each boat. How many families does this equate to? How about the Mexico ground staff? The local business that are impacted? Not a problem for you but devastating for those potentially affected.

Diving for me? Well, I do find it invigorating - relaxing not so much. So we are off to Cozumel the first part of next month and Socorro in January. So we have skin in the game, make that dollars in the game, about $1500 for the marine park. Your sitting at home calling other folks trip increases for the good of the wild - how caviler you are.

As to your inquiry of what is bothering me. The only thing bothering me today is the high avalanche probability in the central Colorado mountains which may interfere with my backcountry ski venture tomorrow. If you have a beacon and probe - along with a little training - you are welcome to tag along. Perhaps you can then better explain to me how an approximate 20% increase in typical Socorro LAB trip costs benefits anyone, considering the dire straights the dive travel industry is confronted with.

 

[chris kippax]

Does the underwater camera housing tax apply to those travelling to Socorro

 

[Cert1967]

Does the underwater camera housing tax apply to those travelling to Socorro

It's Mexico, maybe yes, maybe no. It should not. The search box on this forum and Google are your friends. Below is an example.

Housing importation duties levied at Baja airports ::​

A few years ago I paid/negotiated a $100 exit tax at the MX_To_Belize border - the EX-IMG agent had the contents of one bag spread out on the floor and was ready to move on to the rest of our luggage. The amount seemed high, but I am sure it went straight into the government's account for the benefit of the people.

 

[DuTemplar]

I'm planning an anniversary getaway with the wifey. I was eying up a Socorro trip for February, and they just repriced themselves out of consideration. ScubaSpa Maldives just became more affordable by comparison.

 

[kelemvor]

Perhaps you can then better explain to me how an approximate 20% increase in typical Socorro LAB trip costs benefits anyone, considering the dire straights the dive travel industry is confronted with.

I'm not suggesting I'm in favor of this or any extra tax. The taxes are already way too damn high. That said, if the tax has the effect of reducing tourism to the area then it has succeeded in protecting the marine environment in that area. That is the case regardless of where any of the collected money goes. Given the extreme increase, that is likely the goal of this tax increase.

 

[Cert1967]

I'm not suggesting I'm in favor of this or any extra tax. The taxes are already way too damn high. That said, if the tax has the effect of reducing tourism to the area then it has succeeded in protecting the marine environment in that area. That is the case regardless of where any of the collected money goes. Given the extreme increase, that is likely the goal of this tax increase.

Reason for the big increase? My guess - lack of tax revenue during the park closure. A government unit seldom takes a revenue cut.

If I were MX I would add the daily tax to the fee(s) the boats pay to operate. Just like the tax on booze and gas, this would effectively hide the tax from the consumer. While the tax would be passed on, the MX revenue agents would be shielded from direct criticism. Left as an add-on it is a slap-in-the-face to the consumer. Do LABs charge customers the same 19% tax that hotels charge in Cozumel? If they do - the combined tax amount is staggering.

As for fewer divers/boats benefiting the marine park? Not likely.

LABs are one of the best protectors against illegal fishing. No LABs - the Chinese will scour the park clean.

Few divers have ever seen factory fish harvesting - it's simple, take everything in the ocean.

And that is what is likely to happen in Socorro if the LABs decline in number.