So you want to buy a new computer?

[lucca brassi]

Just switch from Aladin Tech 2g to Suunto Vyper Novo. Like it !

 

[stuartv]

As a newbie diver, I want to add another post to this thread, addressed to other newbies who may come along after me and bother to read this thread.

I have been diving for 9 months and have just completed my 35th dive. I actually did 5 dives off the Outer Banks of North Carolina this weekend, so dive #s 31 - 35.

In the 9 months since I got certified, I have had a number of discussions on this board with older, more experienced members about dive computers. Specifically, about dive computers for new Recreational divers and the importance (or non-importance) of the algorithm the computer uses. I have been told time and again that the relative conservatism or liberalism of the computer does not matter - especially to new divers buying their first computer. Many of the "old hands" on here insisted that one reason it doesn't matter is that I (and other new divers) won't be hitting my "No Decompression Limits" anyway because I'll run out of air first. Thus, liberal or conservative doesn't matter because I'll be coming up for air before even a conservative computer tells me to anyway.

This post is to say that, despite all the words of wisdom that liberal or conservative does not matter, I did a lot of research before I bought my first dive computer and I bought one that, based on my research, is among the most liberal computers you can get - an Oceanic Atom 3.0. And I dive with it set to the more liberal of the two algorithms it supports, and with no "conservatism factor" set.

With that (most liberal) computer, I did 5 dives that past weekend, with a shallowest dive of 64 feet (the wreck of the Suloide), and 3 dives over 110 feet (the U-352, the Spar, and the Aeolus). And on all 5 dives, I went right up to within 1 to 3 minutes of my NDL before beginning my ascent, diving Nitrox mixes from 28 to 31 percent, depending on the dive. The least amount of gas I got back on the boat with was 920 psi. The most was 1440 psi (I might have had a little more NDL than 3 minutes left on that one when I began my ascent - but it was still a 28 minute dive with an average depth of 75 feet and max of 111). This data is all according to my data downloaded from my Atom to SubSurface, which includes gas data from the wireless Air Integration transmitter.

Now, I'm not some Superman of diving gas efficiency. I simply chose to find some good deals and buy HP120 tanks for myself. But, I could have used 100s and still had more than 500psi left on even the dive where I used the most gas (78 cu ft).

The point:

I feel vindicated in saying that even a brand new diver should consider the algorithm used by any computer they are contemplating to purchase. They should educate themselves on how THAT computer performs on calculating NDLs for initial dives and repetitive dives (i.e. second and subsequent dives in the same 24 hour period). It's not the black magic that some preach. it's math and science, and the data is out there. And potential computer buyers should be aware of the ramifications if they choose to buy a computer that is "more conservative."

I don't think I'm anything special. Therefore, I think that there will be plenty of other new divers like me that will come along and who would actually benefit (by getting more bottom time) from choosing a computer that uses an algorithm that will allow them more No Deco Limit time. They may not get that benefit in their first 10 dives. Maybe not in the first 20 or 30 or 40. But, why spend money on a computer that you'll outgrow after even 50 dives? Or at least, why do that unwittingly? Based on the research and lab testing, which I posted links to before, I am really glad that, when I did my second dive to 112' yesterday, after a 1:30 surface interval, I was able to get an enjoyable amount of time on the Aeolus - which I do not believe I would have gotten if I had had certain other "more conservative" recreational dive computers.

To be extra clear, before people start piling on saying I'm an ignorant idiot, I am NOT saying that people should only buy the most liberal computer. I am saying that people should have all the info available to them, so that they can make THEIR OWN INFORMED DECISION about what computer to buy and why. Telling people "don't worry about that. It won't matter to you for a long time" is peddling pablum. It seems to me that scuba diving should absolutely be about people learning about, making, and taking responsibility for their own decisions - not "trusting" the advice of more experienced people JUST because that person has more pages filled out in their log book. People whose advice is "trust me. This is what you want. That difference there doesn't matter for you," with no actual explanation of why - or worse, explanations that don't actually survive contact with reality (e.g. "that doesn't matter because you won't be hitting your NDLs any time soon"), are fostering a culture of ignorance and "trust me" divers. New divers should "trust" the old hands because those old hands give them logical, fact-based explanations for why they endorse a certain way of doing something. Not because "I'm more experienced and I say so."

I may be one, but I do not believe all new divers are stupid idiots. And I believe that talking to them as if they are - which seems to be the default mode for a number of people on here (presumed an idiot until proven otherwise) - does a disservice to new divers, to ScubaBoard, and to the entire scuba community.

And that is all just the opinion and experience of one newbie diver. So, take it for what it's worth. Which is to say, DON'T take my word for it. Do your own research and make your own decisions about what's important to you. Don't just blindly accept anyone else's word (including mine) about what is important. I think it's ALL important - right up until YOU decide that it's not important for YOU.

Somebody clicked Like on this old post of mine, which called my attention to it.

First, thank you for Liking it. I appreciate that you read it, like it, and took the time to let me know that you liked it.

Second, after re-reading it, 500-ish dives and a whole lot of more advanced training later, I still totally agree with what I wrote 6 years ago. Do your research and know what you're buying. Do not blindly accept advice (including mine) that isn't explained to you in a way that you can understand and evaluate the advice for yourself on whether and how it applies to you and your diving.

 

[Saltwater_Parrot]

Just purchased my first dive computer and went with the Garmin Mk2i for a few reasons, many of which are highlighted in this thread:
I wanted a computer, wanted air integration, and I wanted to get the best value and most future-proofing (ie something that would be valuable as I gain experience and eventually go into the tech side of diving).

I will go over my experience and opinion so far.

I was between the Teric and the Mk2i and ultimately went with the Mk2i because I also do a lot of hiking, weight training, and other activities, all of which the Mk2i supports. I'm not much of a watch person but feel like I got a lot of value out of this due to those other modes. My justification was, for an extra 300-500 or so dollars, I could have what otherwise would be two watches in one. I personally have no problems seeing the screen and prefer the superior battery life that comes with less brightness (plus, the press of a button illuminates the backlight if you really need it).

I've used the Mk2i so far on a few dives, hikes, a camping trip, and for weight training and was very happy all around. If you're considering between the two, I think the major question is, do you want just a diving watch, or an "active lifestyle" watch? If you only want a watch for diving and nothing else, then the Teric would probably be the way to go, as it saves you a few dollars, it can afford the higher screen brightness, and it does everything you could ever ask of a diving computer. If you want the best all around value and would wear the watch all the time, the Mk2i would defnitely be the way to go in my opinion. I was impressed when diving, between the normal functions as a diving computer, the different screens and customization, the GPS locations of entry and exit, and so on. I was also impressed when I went hiking and camping, as my entire hike was recorded, very accurately, and the Garmin Explore app has very good maps with up-to-date trails. I was then further impressed when I went to the gym, and realized that it was actually recognizing what exercises I was doing (ie curls, flies, etc), although this feature is definitely not 100% yet and seems to get a bit confused when compound movements are added in. You can always pre-program your workout though. It also connects to the myfitnesspal app, which you use to track your meals/calories. Has skydiving, tactical, pool, and so many modes its actually crazy.

Basically, if you want a dedicated dive computer that you will use for diving and don't care about the rest, go with the Teric. If you want a watch that will quite literally do everything and get you really excited to stay healthy and fit (at least it made me feel that way), go with the Mk2i. Of course, this is all my opinion!

 

[Blackcrusader]

I was given a link to this Canadian shop. The prices are in Canadian dollars.
Seem quite reasonable

Dive Computers Archives

Dive Computers for sale online from the best brands like Shearwater Research, Suunto, Garmin, Mares Diving, Scubapro, Divesoft, Oceanic and many more

www.dansdiveshop.ca

 

[stuartv]

In light of a current discussion, I feel like this thread should have some reference somewhere for a list of dive computers that can/will stop showing you your NDL/deco info DURING a dive, under any circumstance.

The Apple Watch Ultra (and v2) with the Oceanic app will do that.

Now I'm told that some models of Suunto will also do it.

Essentially, stopping working during a dive, by design, is a characteristic I would consider to be totally unacceptable in a dive computer. When people come to this forum to learn more when shopping for a computer, I think it would be a boon to the community to share awareness of this issue, so that people can make a well-informed choice before plunking out their money.

 

[Belzelbub]

In light of a current discussion, I feel like this thread should have some reference somewhere for a list of dive computers that can/will stop showing you your NDL/deco info DURING a dive, under any circumstance.

I think the list you referenced is complete. I hope so. I've only ever heard of Suunto computers doing it until the AWU came out. Definitely not a fan of that feature. I use dive computers to have information available to guide me to the surface as safely as possible. A DC ceasing to function as a DC in mid-dive is completely unacceptable.

I'm not a fan of lockouts in general, but can somewhat understand the reasoning if it happens after the dive. I can't even begin to understand the reasoning behind in-water lockouts.

 

[CaptainMattO]

The only Issue I've had with the Garman is when I did an update at the beginning of this year it would not calculate tissues until I reset it. Only took one dive to see that it wasn't working and a couple hours googling then talking to support to get an answer that I needed to reset the watch tissue data.

 

[Jt2424]

In light of a current discussion, I feel like this thread should have some reference somewhere for a list of dive computers that can/will stop showing you your NDL/deco info DURING a dive, under any circumstance.

The Apple Watch Ultra (and v2) with the Oceanic app will do that.

Now I'm told that some models of Suunto will also do it.

Essentially, stopping working during a dive, by design, is a characteristic I would consider to be totally unacceptable in a dive computer. When people come to this forum to learn more when shopping for a computer, I think it would be a boon to the community to share awareness of this issue, so that people can make a well-informed choice before plunking out their money.

Appreciate the info on the Ultra 2. I did not know this

 

[Bloody Marvelous]

Appreciate the info on the Ultra 2. I did not know this

The Apple Ultra 2 will display information until 40 msw, but continue to track your dive down to 44 msw. Below that, the depth sensor won't function anymore, and it won't be able to provide any data to the algorithm. Of course, 44 msw is well beyond the recreational dive limit, so you shouldn't be getting anywhere near that depth anyway.

In my opinion, using an app as your dive computer is an indication that you're not thinking about taking specialty courses to expand your diving capabilities. You're likely at most an AOW with Nitrox diver. Not saying there's anything wrong with that of course, but if you're considering going beyond that, get a real dive computer. It doesn't need to be expensive, but it should keep working to at least 60 meters, preferably deeper.

 

[lucca brassi]

I just ordered RATIO IX3M2 GPS Ratio Computers Europe - Ratio Computers