So, just who is George Irvine III?????

[PfcAJ]

"He's the rudest diver I've ever heard of!!"

"But you have heard of him..." - Capt Jack Sparrow.

 

[Superlyte27]

You would be amazed at how different George was in person on Diveboats in the 90's, or, even how he was on the Internet when discussing things with friends....He did the WWF Wrestler personna ONLY in Cave or Tech circles, and only when it was related to someone that he thought was about to kill someone with their practices.....and unlike today--in the mid-90's, there were a great many tech and cave agencies and instructors that were actively promoting behaviors that WOULD kill divers. Pretty much only George and DIR stood up to this, and created such a fervor that things were looked at in a different light, and most of the bad behaviors were dropped....The instructors that were dangerous back in the 90's were deeply insulted. Many of these absolutely believed what they had been doing was right, and the George attacks completely unwarranted. Many other divers are alive today because of change George forced on the industry. And again, this was in tech or cave circles--George NEVER trashed or was mean to recreational divers or recreational instructors....he often held Recreational instructors in much higher regard than many tech divers or many tech or cave instructors. He would talk about how a good PADI or NAUI instructor would have just about finished "creating" a good diver, and then some 90 day wonder tech instructor would get their hands on them, and throw away all the good training the person had had, and create so many convolutions and horrific gear configurations---and that part of this was the need to make major changes in order to charge for the tech course. This has ZERO relation to tech courses today....If you went back to 1996, and saw the emerging tech classes in those days, it would be horrifying to 99% of the advanced divers on this board !


And today, the "History" you hear about in the last 2 decades of tech or cave diving, has been revised and reinvented by those dominant in the medias.
Very few people on this board could have any real insight into whether they would have liked or hated George had they met him back in the late 90's.

I'm sorry, but this just isn't fact. Anyone can and should google some of the stuff George wrote. Every few years someone links the article George wrote about strokes and he didn't limit those insults to just the cave/tech community. George was his own worst enemy and quite frankly the stuff he put in writing for anyone to see for decades to come has something to do with how bad GUE and the "DIR" community are struggling to enlist more followers.

As far as Tech Instructors killing people, I would gladly put Bill R's. book of students up for the vote. 20 years later, we're still alive. As I'm sure you know, George and Bill went head to head to over and over culminating with GI3 threatening to kill Bill R. as he wrote from a state of florida issued computer. It's pretty funny though. I watched as JJ's team tried out a new Halcyon Side Mount prototype this past week or so, which is exactly what GI3 and Bill R. were fighting about 20+ years ago.

At any rate, this really wasn't about who's a bastard and who's loved by all that knew him. I only stumbled on to this thread because I applied for my Sheck Exley award recently, and I was thinking of the man whom the reward was named after. I thought it fitting that there is no GI3 award out there.

 

[danvolker]

And the place you can read pretty much 100% of this was the tech list and the cavers list, on Aquanaut.com

George was never on rec.scuba--that was my job
If you do go to aquanaut to check out posts George made, many were under Trey ( his nickname), and many under K.Irvine
Just keep in mind, the posting back then was nothing like the posting today....this was when the FLAME WAR was entertainment, and many really looked forward to epic battles.
Personally, I would love it if many here went back to the beginning posts on the list serve, and worked their way through to near the end of the database...that would be a perspective that only a few of us here have now....


One of the posters mentioned Sheck and what type of relationship George had with him...they were very close friends, and when Sheck Died, that was a LIFE CHANGING Event for George that changed him forever...and changed his Internet Personna forever. He blamed a couple of individuals that Sheck was hanging around with, for essentially "daring" Sheck into the depth records...without their pushing, it was unlikley Sheck would have ever cared that much....but he was young at heart, and a major adventurer, and...he would have a hard time backing down from a challenge.

I would not want to argue with Superlyte about how many people George offended to their core....and that many may have been "sacrifices" he decided he would make for the sake of a big Flame-Fest that thousands of divers would read....he used this as a media tool, to push the DIR agenda.....And it was not fair to "many" that were used as a tool......

But that is all long behind us now...the DIR's don't start Flame Wars any more to MOVE a message....and the Dir"s try to treat online divers like they would treat people in real life.....and the GUE's are an entirely DIFFERENT personna.... Jarrod Jablonsky was close to the Polar Opposite of George's Internet Style in the 90's, and today he has infused the GUE's with a very polite style infused with constant attemps to help and to share.....

 

[TSandM]

"Constant attempts to help and share." Yup, that's what I see and have seen, for the most part, for eight years.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

I loved the entertainment value of the tech list. GI would rip anyone to shreds if he believed you were promoting unsafe diving. The ones I truly hated were the George Irvine Wannabees. They spouted the same venom, usually verbatim without having the experience George had. It was always a strange feeling to read someone ranting about deep air or diving solo when I knew they were still doing it themselves.

 

[Superlyte27]

I loved the entertainment value of the tech list. GI would rip anyone to shreds if he believed you were promoting unsafe diving. The ones I truly hated were the George Irvine Wannabees. They spouted the same venom, usually verbatim without having the experience George had. It was always a strange feeling to read someone ranting about deep air or diving solo when I knew they were still doing it themselves.

The problem that I believe is that these guys are still around, and new recruits are behaving very much the same way.

 

[danvolker]

The problem that I believe is that these guys are still around, and new recruits are behaving very much the same way.

I know with Fundies, the GUE instructors spend a lot of time explaining the proper way to discuss the GUE style of diving, and this style is as opposite from George style as is your own. DIR's have no regulating, and can be Internet taught as often as they can be found to have been mentored. Either way, the only fix for this is a cultural shift--if those known by DIR's begin to act more like the GUE's, that would go along way to address the issue you bring up.... While you have been polite enough not to lump me into the group of DIR's that have posted things that are hurtful, I am aware that I need to have an online behavior more inline with the day and age we are living in..... I am trying hard to post like I talk in real life...and not to use the media tactics of the 90's. Any time you or anyone else here sees me stray from this direction, I will welcome a wake up call.

 

[Bombay High]

. I am trying hard to post like I talk in real life...and not to use the media tactics of the 90's. Any time you or anyone else here sees me stray from this direction, I will welcome a wake up call.

Gentlemen are hard to come by in this day and age. Its a pleasure to have you on Scubaboard.

 

[BDSC]

Gentlemen are hard to come by in this day and age. Its a pleasure to have you on Scubaboard.

If it wasn't for Dan, I would have never bought my "long fins". (Longer than std fins but not long like Dan likes them)

 

[scjoe]

George NEVER trashed or was mean to recreational divers or recreational instructors....he often held Recreational instructors in much higher regard than many tech divers or many tech or cave instructors.

Maybe I just got lucky, but it took just a few minutes to find the following gem.

-----Original Message----- From: Marie [mailto:scubagirl@divemail.com] Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 5:19 PM To: techdiver@aquanaut.com Subject: RE: DCS incident HI Sergio, If you want sound, factual, research based answers and/or recommendations to this and any other question regarding DCS, you might try asking Dr. Michael Powell. Dr. Powell is the head of the Environmental Physiology and Biophysics lab at NASA, specializing in decompression problems associated with Extravehicular Activity. NASA spends more money on decompression research than all other organizations in the world, including the US Navy. In fact, Dr. Powell's research provides the basis for most of the US Navy's physiological studies and research. In 1969, Dr. Powell started working for the Ocean System Division of Union Carbide studying problems concerning decompression sickness. In 1975, Dr. Powell went to Seattle, Washington, to work with Merrill Spencer, MD, at the Institute of Applied Physiology and Medicine. In 1977 he took a leave to work in Germany for three years at the Institute for Aerospace Medicine in Bonn. He returned and remained at I.A.P.M. until 1989, during which time he directed the human-subject tests of the DSAT/PADI Recreational Dive Planner. He joined NASA at the Johnson Space Center in Houston in 1989. You can see that Dr. Powell has an extensive background in the effects of decompression on the human body. He is the foremost leading authority in this field and I would trust his opinion and advice above any other in matters of DCS. If you would like to have Dr. Powell publicly answering your questions, he regularly spends time at ScubaBoard - Scuba Diving Forum - Diving Social Network - ScubaBoard Home You will most commonly find him posting in the Dr. Deco section of the forum. Cordially, Marie

From: trey@netdor.com (Trey)
Subject: RE: DCS incident
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 22:06:47 -0400


Bull****. My favorite line here is "during which time he directed the human-subject tests of the DSAT/PADI Recreational Dive Planner." This give new meaning to the term "face the wheel". The fact is that the guys who know the most about this are the ones who work with sources who actually are involved in serious diving . If this guy had any contribution to make to this game, we'd know about it. What he has is the party line that does not work and is why we see these accidents. Wake up and smell reality. The Navy comment is also just too funny.

-----Original Message----- From: Marie [mailto:scubagirl@divemail.com] Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 11:03 PM To: techdiver@aquanaut.com; trey@netdor.com Subject: Re: DCS incident Well Trey, Here are some tips for you: 1) Look before you leap. 2) That looks like a pretty nasty case of hoof in mouth. 3) It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. All I was trying to do was help you guys out, but you obviously don't care to know the truth. If you were interested in expanding your knowledge, you would have looked into what I said before you open your mouth and spewed profanity (obviously the only way you know how to communicate). Try checking with DAN or PADI or try reading any one of the over 100 studies, articles, and papers he has had published. Or contact the Undersea Medical Society about the many presentations he has given or participated in, or contact the Undersea Hyperbaric Medical Society and find out why Dr. Powell is a high respected member. Or you could contact NEDU (Navy Experimental Dive Unit). For any of the rest of you who may be interested in expanding your knowledge of DCS with more than just Trey's hot air, feel free to follow up on any of the resources I have mentioned. Marie"



From: trey@netdor.com (Trey)
Subject: RE: DCS incident
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 06:32:19 -0400


"Marie, you are a complete moron. I run the most successful dive project in diving and have LONG AGO sought out and used the real resources in this game that have allowed us to do what we do so successfully, and have accumulated a track record that you will never understand, as well as developed decompression techniques that are now recognized as the correct way to do this, and have nothing to do with the slop out of DAN , PADI or Navy. Why don't you find out who and what we are before you get on here like an idiot and start recommending that we all go re read our PADI tables. Should we stay three squares from a black box, Marie, or is the good "doc" still trying to figure that one out? Notice that the original question addressed me, not you, and the correct answer was given. This is not rec scuba, by the way. If you think the word "bull****" is "profanity", then maybe you should stop bull****ting. I'll start sending everyone to you , PADI and DAN when they ask me a deco question. Your vast experience reading "Alert Diver" will be a big help to them all, I am sure."

The so-called writing style on the Internet in those days wasn't a reflection of anything other than the people who jumped into the discussions. Lots of people had heated discussions and disagreements in other areas outside of scuba (and still do) without resorting to 3rd grade name calling. Irvine managed to drag many discussions down to his level, but Marie, whoever she was, didn't take the bait.