SM regs: XTX50 vs Dive Rite vs ??

[ams511]

While I disagree with some of the comments that @ams511 made, particularly about the 5th port *only used by the Razor crowd*, and the left/righty *basically only used by the Dive Rite crowd and those of us that are strange*, the only thing really agreed upon almost universally is that the swivel turret is really nice for comfort on the left side, and to prevent kinking in single file exits on the right side.

As I mentioned in my original post, I am not currently a sidemount diver but am looking into it. If you can please tell me where I am in error.

I have lurked in these forums for a while and most of the recommendations for regulators have been for first stages that have the down port and the rotating turret and a second stage with switchable hoses. I assumed that is why Apeks, Scubapro, Dive Rite, Hog, and others have come out with second stages where you can swap the hose. Most of the sidemount packages I see have featured regulators with these attributes.

 

[tbone1004]

@ams511
there are "tribes" in the sidemount world.
one "tribe" is the razor tribe and they are proponents of the bottom port on their first stages that go to super short inflator hoses. It works for them with their hose routing which is largely dictated by the use of a single bungee. That single bungee has the necks of the tanks quite low so the fifth port works. They run their SPG's down along the bottle with the valve outlet facing up
Another "tribe" is the Edd tribe who dive with a very similar configuration to the Razor crowd, but use loop bungees that bring the tank necks more in line with their spine vs their sternum. 5th port is not useful for this, and SPG's are facing forward with the valve outlet facing down.
Yet another tribe is the Dive Rite tribe that usually has their long hose on the left with a reversed second stage to prevent a hose crossing under the diver when making a single file exit. Ring bungees used with this group. This is a very small group.
Another is UTD with their shin dig that you can read about
Another is Toddy Style which you can also read about elsewhere

the only group that uses lefty or reversible regs in that group is the Dive Rite crowd who makes up a small percentage of the whole. There are only a handful of us that use non-directional regulators and actually use them to be left handed or ambidextrous.

One main advantage of reversible second stages is for those that subscribe to left lean, right rich for deco/stage bottles. When you have your "right rich" tanks, you can put a lefty reg on there and have it cross your neck exactly like a normal stage bottle would.
Another crowd that likes them is the double hose crowd who seem to like them for octopus use because it removes an S bend when you donate and have to swim side by side.
BSAC seems to like them for a similar reason. I tend to agree with them, but as I don't use sided regs, and am predominantly a cave diver where we have to make single file exits, it's not really a concern for me.

 

[ams511]

@tbone1004 Thank you for the information. I did realize there are different sidemount "tribes" and they are not very friendly to each other. LOL. I thought the two main schools of thought were the: 1) U.S. / Florida Cave, that advocated using a system like the Hollis SMS, Dive Rite Nomad, etc., and the 2) U.K. / Mexico Cave system that uses the Razor harness, Xdeep Stealth, etc. Then we have the minors like UTD which seems to be like the U.K. system while adding a manifold for gas changes. and Toddy who uses a wing sandwiched between two plates. Although in one video he has his own product.

My question is where can someone learn about these different systems in depth in to make a rational choice?

 

[rick00001967]

i have used both the apeks and DR regs along with scubapro and hog as well for SM. hogs were the cheapest and honestly they were great. nothing wrong with any of the others but i would save your dough. if your two choices are the apeks or the DR i think you will be happy with either. so why not save some money and go with the DR.

 

[runsongas]

I'm in the market for SM regs to get over the winter. Need to save up.

Thanks!

if this is something you don't need immediately for a class, i would just wait for black friday at least and see what options come up then. i paid a lot less for my hog d3 backup set that way.

with that said, the dive rite are a much better value at those prices. the apeks set isn't worth the difference in retail pricing. only reason i have an apeks sm set was getting it lightly used for way way less than msrp.

 

[UWZen]

Then you've got folks like Steve Martin diving a Mexico/Razor/Stealth rig using loop bungees with fifth port inflators.
And you've got folks using two 7' hoses, both right handed seconds.

Basically what it boils down to is that sidemount is all about being mission and user specific as necessary.

Rob Neto has a pretty good book on sidemount, and Andy Davis website is a wealth of knowledge. If you want to read up more, those are good places to start, and just keep lurking through old threads.

 

[Schwob]

if this is something you don't need immediately for a class, i would just wait for black friday at least and see what options come up then. i paid a lot less for my hog d3 backup set that way.

with that said, the dive rite are a much better value at those prices. the apeks set isn't worth the difference in retail pricing. only reason i have an apeks sm set was getting it lightly used for way way less than msrp.

Second that
... and anything tbone wrote.

Strange how the pricing for Apeks goes up into the absurd in the US compared to central Europe, at least at the current ecchange rate.

 

[ams511]

Strange how the pricing for Apeks goes up into the absurd in the US compared to central Europe, at least at the current exchange rate.

It is not strange at all. Europe has much more consumer friendly laws than the United States. My understanding is manufacturers are not allowed to set retail prices. In the past it was easy to purchase from Europe, however there was some sort of decision that manufacturers could restrict sales outside of the EU. So most sources for products and parts dried up.

 

[Johanan]

FWIW, Dive Rite XT is a balanced regulator - i.e. delivers consistent gas flow regardless of the pressure of gas left in the cylinder and depth. Apeks XTX50 is an over-balanced one, which progressively increases intermediate pressure as depth and gas density increases.

"There are several manufacturers currently marketing high-performance OB regulators, and a growing number of cave divers are using them as their default choice. " (RAID Cave 1 - Equipment manual.)

 

[Patoux01]

How do the DR regs breathe compared with the XTX50? I don't just mean on the surface, but at depth.

I can compare DR to XTX100, which should be the same as XTX50. Both new from the shop (ts-heinemann for apeks, DGX for my DR set), the DR set breathed noticeably harder, on the surface and underwater.
On the other hand, it's still very much acceptable, even at 180' (55m) on air. It gave too much air to the liking of my brother. I also find that DR


I wouldn't listen too much to some others here about "you absolutely don't need a 5th port". It doesn't cost much to have it, and then it's there when you need it eventually later on. Loop bungees are very much used with a 5th port by the way.