Question SM advise

[Jatinder]

Hi, I'm a new diver with less than 20 dives. I'm taking drysuit and AOW course this summer. I want to delve into SM and Ice diving as well.

I'm planning to go into Rec SM because double BM tanks would be too heavy for me. (5'8" #150)

Any recommendation to learn SM here locally (Instructor or Agency near/around Ottawa). Would it be advisable to get into a course first and then start with a mentor or just start with a mentor directly?

Also, any recommendations on reg set is welcome as well for eventual Ice diving.

Your thoughts?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

When I decided to get my OW ticket, my first thought was sidemount due to my size. My LCD shop recommended I train on a Hollis SMS 100 Dual BCD. Best advice ever. I've also seen videos on YouTube where they only use one sidemount bottle. That's amazing.

Just out of curiosity what other rigs did they have on hand to try?
The SMS100 tends to need some serious mods (the Edd mods for example) to be as versatile as other rigs out there and unless you are only diving wet using very heavy steel tanks, the double bladder is overkill.

I know more divers who have gotten rid of their SMS100 than ones who are actually diving it.

Before I decided to downsize this year, I had 6 different rigs for students to try from different manufacturers and I still have access to about that many. No one rig seems to work well for every diver although the XDeep Stealth comes very close because you can build it around the individual.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Twin steel 72 s are nice for cold water.
After a season they start to feel lite.

Agree as long as the diver remembers that 72's act like al80s once the start to get sucked down and the tails get floaty so you need move the leashes to drings further forward. I like my 72's sidemount for OW checkouts.

 

[Marie13]

SMS100 double bladder? I’ve seen the 100. It looks much worse than the 75 I dived that was OK. The Dive Rite Nomad XT I now dive is worlds better. I dive cold water drysuit with steels.

 

[rongoodman]

deleted

 

[Jatinder]

Thanks for all the replies.

I can see most people here are advocates of double backmount. But with my limited experience/knowledge, after using single AL80, I was thinking I can't lug around 2 of these cylinders, let alone 2 steel tanks. Smaller sizes might be available but I don't know if they are available here for renting as I haven't seen them. I'll talk to LDSs in the area.

I could get more experience with single BM and then progress to SM but my thinking was to not waste time/money on one setup and then purchase another. If I was going to end up with double tank SM, might as well start with single cylinder SM. Why not save my back as well...

@BoltSnap Thanks for the advice. Maybe local divers can point me to a great SM instructor.

@Rol diy @rongoodman Thanks for the tip. I'll see if I can try them

For ice diving, how are DiveRite XTs from DGX?

 

[Marie13]

The DR regs are just fine for ice diving. Have plenty of friends using them for ice diving.

Boat diving SM can be awkward. I only do SM due to bad knees.

Do squats if you’re not already doing them. Dumbbell squats with moderate weights has helped me a ton.

 

[Gone for diving]

Agree as long as the diver remembers that 72's act like al80s once the start to get sucked down and the tails get floaty so you need move the leashes to drings further forward. I like my 72's sidemount for OW checkouts.

Never used 72s in sidemount... that's good to know...

I meant 72s for BM ...
i have 3 sets and love them.
They over pump well too.
Normally have 2600 psi in them.

It's not bad to learn sidemount.
Any stages I sidemount

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Never used 72s in sidemount... that's good to know...

I meant 72s for BM ...
i have 3 sets and love them.
They over pump well too.
Normally have 2600 psi in them.

It's not bad to learn sidemount.
Any stages I sidemount

Double 72s are sweet. I used to pump mine to 2800-3000. I call them baby doubles and for anything up to 150ft they were great with the right fill.

 

[BoltSnap]

Thanks for all the replies.

I can see most people here are advocates of double backmount. But with my limited experience/knowledge, after using single AL80, I was thinking I can't lug around 2 of these cylinders, let alone 2 steel tanks. Smaller sizes might be available but I don't know if they are available here for renting as I haven't seen them. I'll talk to LDSs in the area.

I could get more experience with single BM and then progress to SM but my thinking was to not waste time/money on one setup and then purchase another. If I was going to end up with double tank SM, might as well start with single cylinder SM. Why not save my back as well...

@BoltSnap Thanks for the advice. Maybe local divers can point me to a great SM instructor.

@Rol diy @rongoodman Thanks for the tip. I'll see if I can try them

For ice diving, how are DiveRite XTs from DGX?

People here on SB don't know you and don't know anything about you at all, what is said here is a "guesstimate" at best only. You really need to find local (or close to local) trustworthy experienced SM and Doubles BM instructor(s) and solicit their opinion if you are in doubt. That's what I would do.

 

[Subcooled]

Hi, I'm a new diver with less than 20 dives. I'm taking drysuit and AOW course this summer. I want to delve into SM and Ice diving as well.

It's a nice plan. Do it!

Note that you will need a decent amount of drysuit experience in order to Enjoy ice diving

This video shows very advanced forms of ice diving, but look at the ceiling! The environment is absolutely fabulous - even very close to open water! And note that we ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS have a line leading to the surface. Please note that the hole in ice is big and square because it is in the shallows... in deep water we want a small triangular hole, or some man-wide bay that facilitates easy exit from water. On an introductory ice diving course you would be tethered to the surface by a personal safety/communication line.

You can survive an introductory ice dive (line tender on shore and easy environment) with very little drysuit experience: the whole point of ice dives is to look at the ice ceiling, hence depth will be 20 inches, and drysuit volume adjustment is not a critical skill... but it will be a heck of a lot more enjoyable if you do not bounce around the ceiling like a superball. I have done it in a cave when I had a slight equipment problem and I can say that it is really really annoying.

Take that drysuit class and do as many drysuit dives as possible, at shallow depth (0-30 feet), before ice diving. It's worth it.

Sidemount diving is lovely. Double cylinders provide more gas and also redundancy. Easy access to tank valves makes valve feathering trivial, further increasing redundancy - really nice for ice dives where a reg or two might freeflow before they thaw in the water. Freeflow is not a major issue with sidemount as you can adjust the amount of flow at the cylinder valve, or even stop it momentarily (my favorite method).

I'm planning to go into Rec SM because double BM tanks would be too heavy for me. (5'8" #150)

The sidemount set is also balanced. One can dive on ones side, or on the back (possibly supporting cylinders with hands). This video shows how fun sm diving can be.

A sidemount set and a flexible back make all kinds of underwater acrobatics (and physical labour!) easy. Been there, done that. And no more twisted ankles and knees on shore with those double backmount sets. And if you loose your balance and fall, then it is really great to have SIDE mounted tanks and not steel on your back. Did just that last sunday. Everyone was looking at me kissing the ground. Pride lost, but no injury.

_______________
Advanced topic, 2-4 years from now: Sidemount diving is nice for tight (=flat) spaces too... but that is a very advanced type of diving, which requires more mental than physical preparedness. It is generally advisable to become a caver first, and to get used to incredibly cramped dry spaces (it's not easy, I can assure you) first... and then add water to make it physically easier.

Any recommendation to learn SM here locally (Instructor or Agency near/around Ottawa).'

I cannot help.

Would it be advisable to get into a course first and then start with a mentor or just start with a mentor directly?

A course will give you a nice card (a card which I do not have). Some dive centers might ask you for one if you plan on rec sm dives. Other people here might be able to tell you more. I have not done rec sm dives at dive centres. I'm doing independent and tec stuff.

Also, any recommendations on reg set is welcome as well for eventual Ice diving.

Get regs that are cold water certified.

I do know from experience that Apeks DS4/DST/XTX first stages and XTX50 second stages work like charm in cold water. And now Apeks has launched a new reg for extreme cold water, but I bet I do not need it for my +4C or +2C dives. Haven't needed for the past 10 years or 400 dives. Perhaps, if I get a job on Antarctica... Poseidon regs are also fine (I have a gorgeous Poseidon Cyklon Metal reg, oh it is so nice looking).

You have to find cold water regs though that can be serviced locally. It's really important that they can be serviced locally/same state, and not on another continent. This is because of freights delays and cost only. If you can buy two sets of regs, then it really does not matter.