Skipping surface intervals - DIR or not?

[*Floater*]

GUE doesn't even have tables.

Who was your instructor?

Martin Lorenzo. Here's the table for air dives (the version I was taught):

40' 90 min
50' 60 min
60' 50 min
70' 35 min
80' 30 min
90' 25 min
100' 20 min
110' 15 min
120' 10 min
130' 5 min

 

[jonnythan]

I wonder where that comes from. It was made very clear to me on several occasions that GUE does not have a "table," and I personally would never accept an unpublished table that some instructor happened to tell me about on blind faith.

Is that an air table? Air diving isn't even DIR.

 

[WaterDawg]

I heard that they are publishing a table. I bet that 2 days after they do, many will be preaching it.

 

[*Floater*]

I wonder where that comes from. It was made very clear to me on several occasions that GUE does not have a "table," and I personally would never accept an unpublished table that some instructor happened to tell me about on blind faith.

Is that an air table? Air diving isn't even DIR.

Things change, or maybe instructors are encouraged to teach some things their own way. What do you use and is what you use written somewhere in official GUE materials?

By the way, "the table" comes from the 20 min at 100' with 5 min +/- per 10' added as it's supposed to be an easy way to remember it, except they've adjusted it for the shallow part because otherwise it wouldn't make sense. Air diving is of course not encouraged, but you can adjust the table for EAN32 to get another table.

By the way, Martin did say that next year he might be teaching something different as things get updated...

 

[JustinW]

Looking at the table you gave, and looking at the PADI RDP, some of those dives predict you getting bent. I'm not DIR, but what is the point of using doubles on a NDL dive? Why would you need that much backgas, even using conservative gas management.

 

[StSomewhere]

Is that an air table? Air diving isn't even DIR.

I have a 21% MDL table that's remarkably similar (mine has a different 40' time). Then the EAD calculation for EAN32 is 20% (or about 20' +/-). Mine came with basic ascent rate instructions and a 90 minute SI, if the actual SI is less the ascent profile is longer for at least the last three stops. FWIW...

 

[*Floater*]

Looking at the table you gave, and looking at the PADI RDP, some of those dives predict you getting bent. I'm not DIR, but what is the point of using doubles on a NDL dive? Why would you need that much backgas, even using conservative gas management.

The PADI and GUE ascents differ though so you cannot just compare them without accounting for the implications of ascent differences on off gassing.

As for doubles, I prefer the way they feel, in demanding conditions (currents, etc.) I may run low on gas on a single AL80 before my table time is up and also I want to get into tech diving so practicing skills and drills in doubles is more useful for me right now.

 

[jonnythan]

Things change, or maybe instructors are encouraged to teach some things their own way. What do you use and is what you use written somewhere in official GUE materials?

By the way, "the table" comes from the 20 min at 100' with 5 min +/- per 10' added as it's supposed to be an easy way to remember it, except they've adjusted it for the shallow part because otherwise it wouldn't make sense. Air diving is of course not encouraged, but you can adjust the table for EAN32 to get another table.

By the way, Martin did say that next year he might be teaching something different as things get updated...

I use V-planner.

Air diving is not DIR, and I can assure you that GUE will not be publishing any air tables. Whatever air tables you were given were neither GUE nor DIR.

So much for GUE classes being consistent in quality and content across the board.

Oh well.

 

[StSomewhere]

Looking at the table you gave, and looking at the PADI RDP, some of those dives predict you getting bent.

Maybe because PADI's RDP is a NDL table that optionally recommends a "safety stop" at 15' for 3 minutes? The depth averaging is different, the ascent rates are different, the stop depths are different, the idea even of a no deco limit dive vs a minimum deco dive is different, the recommended SI is longer. The more you see how the system goes together, the less you can compare components of it against other systems. Run an ascent profile with a dive computer in computer mode, you'll see its actually more conservative that way.

I'm not DIR, but what is the point of using doubles on a NDL dive? Why would you need that much backgas, even using conservative gas management.

I really don't get this. Less gas, less redundancy is somehow better gas planning because it doesn't allow you to completely screwup a diveplan due to gas limits??? Figure the rock bottom gas requirements for two people doing a rec dive on the Spiegal Grove on single AL80's and it becomes apparent very quickly.

Air diving is not DIR, and I can assure you that GUE will not be publishing any air tables. Whatever air tables you were given were neither GUE nor DIR.

That's a 21% table (as in 21/35) that just happens to work for air, nobody is saying you should dive air. The math for the 20% EAD works for EAN32 and 30/30. The best part is you can work it all out in your head.

 

[*Floater*]

I use V-planner.

Air diving is not DIR, and I can assure you that GUE will not be publishing any air tables. Whatever air tables you were given were neither GUE nor DIR.

So much for GUE classes being consistent in quality and content across the board.

Oh well.

GUE classes aren't ever going to be consistent in content over time because they evolve as DIR evolves.

Also I don't see how v-planner would help you with min deco dives, and I'm surprised they would teach that in a GUE as opposed to decoplanner.