Skipping open circuit and going straight to CCR

[takez0]

This is my first post here. I've learned a ton on this board and I'm grateful for the insights you all provide.

I'm getting into technical diving and I'd like to jump straight into a CCR. Does the group see any benefit or hindrance in skipping open circuit tech training costs and equipment costs and going straight into a CCR? CCR's are obviously an investment. I'd rather not spend money on a new BCD, manifold, tanks, etc., that would only be used specifically for dual-tank open circuit, considering I know where I want to end up already. Let me know your thoughts or if you think this is missed training opportunity.

 

[lostsheep]

How do you stress the importance of switch protocol with only one deco gas?

I have it in my mind that you don’t teach multiple deco gasses on the first deco class.

In full disclosure, I’m not sure you should. one deco gas gets you plenty far until you’re ready for more.

 

[rjack321]

I have no experience on a rebreather, I was asking, why would someone bother with OC, if they intended to only use a rebreather. Maybe you can explain why someone couldn’t use a rebreather to NDL for training and experience and then use a similar rebreather for bailout. Isn’t the liberty rebreather designed for that. It wasn’t long ago people said rebreathers are only for long and deep dives but today people are using them for all their diving. Things move on.

Among many other reasons...
1) because the 2nd loop may not be breathable
2) the 2nd loop can easily flood under water pressure
3) the 2nd loop may not be solve your CO2 hit at all

Diving a BOB is not just something you casually do on any old dive

 

[grantctobin]

So do some professional development or take a course like TDI ER?

If only the negligent very small vocal minority of TDI instructors would become a silent minority the next time TDI tries to nix extended range….

 

[Rayk]

I have no experience on a rebreather, I was asking, why would someone bother with OC, if they intended to only use a rebreather. Maybe you can explain why someone couldn’t use a rebreather to NDL for training and experience and then use a similar rebreather for bailout. Isn’t the liberty rebreather designed for that. It wasn’t long ago people said rebreathers are only for long and deep dives but today people are using them for all their diving. Things move on.

You should (and you will if you get trained CCR) change your perception of having second rebreather to bailout.

It is more like dual rebreathers in use and diver constantly switching back and forth. If only redundancy you have is another rebreather you don’t want to find out it is flooded or has cell problems when you bailed out to it.

 

[Celt]

Among many other reasons...
1) because the 2nd loop may not be breathable
2) the 2nd loop can easily flood under water pressure
3) the 2nd loop may not be solve your CO2 hit at all

Diving a BOB is not just something you casually do on any old dive

Seems to be a lot of false advertising going on with DIvesoft, they say the liberty is bailout ready in standby mode like OC until switched to CCR or the PPO2 drops to 0.8%. Thanks I’ll do some more research.

 

[lermontov]

Seems to be a lot of false advertising going on with DIvesoft, they say the liberty is bailout ready in standby mode like OC until switched to CCR or the PPO2 drops to 0.8%. Thanks I’ll do some more research.

what better way to increase sales -instead of just trying to find new ccr divers - just convince existing customers its the way ahead and to get a second one

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

Don't underestimate OC experience on the surface - there is a lot more to diving than just the underwater part. You need to get to know skippers, wreck sites, dive shops, how to take care of all of your other gear, how to load it on the boat, how to time your kitting up process to be ready on time to catch slack, even where to park at the dives sites etc. Arrived too late to park close to the boat? Now you get to carry all your gear from a more distant spot. Oh now you don't have time to kit up & run a checklist? That's your problem... It is pretty overwhelming in the beginning.

Also, you will build a network of divers who are willing to dive and train with you, because you need to hit quarries regularly, to train and check your gear - you can't get away with diving "tec" twice a year on holiday anymore.

I'm glad I was able to learn all of that while doing AN/DP and very light normoxic trimix dives, or rather very long AN/DP dives with 2 deco gases.

A bailout CCR is again another complexity - it takes time to build & rinse/clean one machine every weekend, now imagine preparing and possibly debugging two of them.

 

[Wibble]

I like this plan. I have a plate and harness and I own 4 AL80s. I do plan to take the "fundies" on OC...ADV Nitrox/DP/IntroTech/ExRange and Sidemount. That's just because I won't be in the rebreather until March. Now that I think about it I'll have to be some of that stuff anyway of I can't rent it. I'll look at a used 40lb wing.

I want to go deeper, farther, longer. Not being a tec diver I like the Dive Rite Choptima. Seems like it provides a lot of flexibility in configuration. Would like your thoughts on that. I also just moved to North Carolina and haven't spoken to my LDS yet.

One thing to learn about technical diving is it takes a lot longer to master than you think.

Recreational diving, literally from zero experience through OW & AOW and off to do a few dives is pretty straightforward. Could even say it's easy.

Technical diving on the other hand is far from simple. Most tasks require sorted skills and lots of practice to be comfortable in the water doing those vital skills. There's also the planning aspect which cannot be overlooked. There's many reasons for this, primarily it is the complexity, disciplines and that you must be self-sufficient -- you cannot bolt to the surface.

It generally takes years of experience to be competent with technical diving, as opposed to weeks or months with typical recreational diving.

Much of the skills required for CCR are the same as for open circuit. If you concentrate on sorting out your core skills and basic stage handling on open circuit, you'll find it's far more simple. CCR adds far more complexity, even when training in shallow lakes -- actually that should read "especially" in shallow lakes because CCR buoyancy is much harder in the shallows.

 

[Heat Miser]

This is my first post here. I've learned a ton on this board and I'm grateful for the insights you all provide.

I'm getting into technical diving and I'd like to jump straight into a CCR. Does the group see any benefit or hindrance in skipping open circuit tech training costs and equipment costs and going straight into a CCR? CCR's are obviously an investment. I'd rather not spend money on a new BCD, manifold, tanks, etc., that would only be used specifically for dual-tank open circuit, considering I know where I want to end up already. Let me know your thoughts or if you think this is missed training opportunity.

Go for it, Choptima sidemount is very different then the traditional DIR back mounted doubles or even the newer traditional rack mounted JJ.

You may not really save a great deal of money, going straight from a Padi Nitrox cert to say 30m no deco Air Dil CCR cert, because ultimately if you have done AN/DP and have some deco experience you can can take the 45m Helitrox CCR cert. Having a good sidemount instructor and ANDP instructor can really dial you in prior taking on the Chopitma CCR, and can be advantageous.

I went from Padi Nitrox to CCR and I coped, but I dive most weekends. I also went back and filled in the gaps during COVID.

I recently put a divsoft BOV (with ADV) on my chop and I added a dil MAV, I think that combo works better than the Choptima ADV, which I found I was constantly turning on and off using the inline shut off valve. I know some people like the WOB of a chest mounted breather, but I have struggled with it a bit compared to the WOB on my revo.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

I know some people like the WOB of a chest mounted breather, but I have struggled with it a bit compared to the WOB on my revo.

I taught the rEvo for a few years, MOD I, II and CCR cave classes and thought the WOB was good. I now teach on the Choptima, same set of courses and the WOB is as good if not better that the rEvo IMO.