Single Tank Backplates

[Uncle Pug]

Halcyon Pioneer STA-less wings with the plastic rods and cambands using SS cam buckles have zero problem holding a heavy steel lp104 rock solid... no rocking on the bolt hole grommets whatsoever. To use this wing without an STA you need a plate with the cam band slots in the same place the wing has the cam band slots. Obviously Halcyon plates have the slots in the right place... so does FredT.

Another item... not concerning plates for single tanks but wings for single tanks. It is important IMO that the wing be a donut shape so that air can pass from side to side across the bottom of the wing as well as the top. With the horseshoe shaped wings if you get more air on one side than the other you need to go head up to equalize them. Donut shaped wings allow the diver to assume any position without having more gas trapped on one side of the wing and throwing you *off balance*.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Halcyon Pioneer STA-less wings with the plastic rods and cambands using SS cam buckles have zero problem holding a heavy steel lp104 rock solid... no rocking on the bolt hole grommets whatsoever. To use this wing without an STA you need a plate with the cam band slots in the same place the wing has the cam band slots. Obviously Halcyon plates have the slots in the right place... so does FredT.

Another item... not concerning plates for single tanks but wings for single tanks. It is important IMO that the wing be a donut shape so that air can pass from side to side across the bottom of the wing as well as the top. With the horseshoe shaped wings if you get more air on one side than the other you need to go head up to equalize them. Donut shaped wings allow the diver to assume any position without having more gas trapped on one side of the wing and throwing you *off balance*.

Dear UP,

I've read many of your postings and I can't disagree with your tag line.

However.....

Many, many have reported trouble with tank rock using exactly the goods you list. Most "pro STA" posts cite inproved stability. It's the grommets and the bolts used to secure the wing that are the pivot points. Stability might be possible with very careful assembly, but it's also possible to balance a spinning plate on a broom stick for a while........


I do have a question: If the donut style wing is vital for single tanks, how does one deal with the same problem when using doubles? Is there a donut style double wing?


Regards,



Tobin George

 

[Dan Gibson]

There is no need for the bolts to secure the wing when using the integrated STA. The gromets won't cause any problem. Loose the bolts.

Many, many have reported trouble with tank rock using exactly the goods you list. Most "pro STA" posts cite inproved stability. It's the grommets and the bolts used to secure the wing that are the pivot points. Stability might be possible with very careful assembly, but it's also possible to balance a spinning plate on a broom stick for a while........

 

[DiverEdd]

I have a jetharness....I really like it, it's built really solid and is designed from the ground up for singles only.

www.jetharness.com

 

[Uncle Pug]

Many, many have reported trouble with tank rock using exactly the goods you list.
******
I do have a question: If the donut style wing is vital for single tanks, how does one deal with the same problem when using doubles? Is there a donut style double wing?

I have my 27# Halcyon wing *bolted* to the plate using SS tee-nuts... a round head bolt, hex head bolt or even an oval head machine screw would stick up and create a issue. However the flat tee-nut with the bolt coming through from the plate side does not creat a problem at all. Alternately one could use a flathead machine screw sized to fit down into the grommet hole enough not to create a problem and use nylocs or wing nuts on the plate side. I received a bag of SS tee-nuts with a Halcyon plate pack but I use zipties for putting that on the plate so the tee-nuts were available for other uses.

As for the donut shaped singles tank wing... I didn't say it was vital... I said that it is important IMO that the wing be donut shaped and then gave the reason.

I don't know of any donut shaped doubles wings but with doubles they really wouldn't be necessary as most folks diving doubles are not assuming odd positions unlike single tank divers (photographers, sprearfishers, fishie lookers, ect.)

Personally when diving my singles wing I use the rear dump on ascent almost exclusively and if my Halcyon wing was not donut shaped I would be only letting air out of the *left* wing instead of both wings. With the donut shape I can use either rear dump or inflator hose without upsetting the apple cart.

Hope this helps. Is it possible for you to redesign your wings so that they are donut shaped?

Note: I have no pecuniary interest in promoting any of the items I might recommend.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I have my 27# Halcyon wing *bolted* to the plate using SS tee-nuts... a round head bolt, hex head bolt or even an oval head machine screw would stick up and create a issue. However the flat tee-nut with the bolt coming through from the plate side does not creat a problem at all. Alternately one could use a flathead machine screw sized to fit down into the grommet hole enough not to create a problem and use nylocs or wing nuts on the plate side. I received a bag of SS tee-nuts with a Halcyon plate pack but I use zipties for putting that on the plate so the tee-nuts were available for other uses.

As for the donut shaped singles tank wing... I didn't say it was vital... I said that it is important IMO that the wing be donut shaped and then gave the reason.

I don't know of any donut shaped doubles wings but with doubles they really wouldn't be necessary as most folks diving doubles are not assuming odd positions unlike single tank divers (photographers, sprearfishers, fishie lookers, ect.)

Personally when diving my singles wing I use the rear dump on ascent almost exclusively and if my Halcyon wing was not donut shaped I would be only letting air out of the *left* wing instead of both wings. With the donut shape I can use either rear dump or inflator hose without upsetting the apple cart.

Hope this helps. Is it possible for you to redesign your wings so that they are donut shaped?

Note: I have no pecuniary interest in promoting any of the items I might recommend.

UP,

I was sincere when I said your tag line was appropriate, and I would not want you to think I was implying that you had a "pecuniary interest" I have noticed your method of patiently providing just enough rope for others to hang themselves, hope I'm not climbing the scaffold now

Please excuse my substitution of vital for important, a little hyperbole, a little too much evidently.

Regarding Tank Rock and Halcyon: The new, fresh from the factory, Halycon rigs I've seen at the LDS use 5/16 flat head machine screws inserted from the tank side of the wing, not wide flat T nuts secured from the divers side. These sharp edged fasteners project above the level of the grommet and in addition to providing a small pivot point are likely to peel two strips of tank paint off as you slide it in.

If you have acheived better results by using a non OEM solution great, but that's not what you referenced in your first post.

I am confused about your ascent and vent protocol with a single wing. I will defer to your experience. Here's mine. Seldom if ever is my wing full inflated, max maybe 50%. When I ascend any distance, I tend to be horizontal to heads up, never that I can recall intentionally heads down other than perhaps backing out of a hole. The single OPV is located near the bottom of the the wing on the diver's side. With a 50% filled wing and a horizontal to heads up position there is no air surrounding the OPV, making it ineffective for venting during ascents.

Descents are another matter of course. If head down even slightly, venting via the dump is easier, at least for me. Here I will conceed it's possible to be somewhat unbalanced, but the addition of air to the wing to slow the descent can be directed to the vented side.

Your thoughts?




Regards,



Tobin George

 

[Uncle Pug]

You are correct that I didn't mention fastening the wing to the plate in my first post and as Dan pointed out one doesn't need to use the bolts.

Personally however I find it better to have the wing secured to the plate... and using the flat tee-nuts seemed a good solution. I set up another fellows Pioneer wing using flathead machine screws and had good results.

I really can't comment further on the rocking situation that others have experienced other than to reiterate that I dive a heavy steel tank without any problem at all.

Now granted, if someone is using a painted tank the bolts (even the tee-nuts I use) could scratch the tank. I do not like painted tanks because that is not the only thing that will scratch them. I use galvanized tanks.

Perhaps it is just me... I have used both horseshoe shaped wings and donut shaped wings and I really like having the ability to move wing gas from side to side across the bottom of the wing.

Have you had the opportunity to dive a donut shaped wing?

And don't worry... no hangings.

 

[Uncle Pug]

One item I forgot to address... dumping gas on ascent.

I prefer horizontal neutrally buoyant ascents. When I need to dump gas from the wing I trim slightly butt up and use the rear dump to burp a little bit out as I am coming to my stop.

(Boy that sounds bad :11: )

By staying horizontal it is easy to peg a stop without overshooting. Slightly heads up and you can't use you fins to stop and if you dump too much gas using the inflator hose you sink back down. I wonder how many folks would be able to lick the yo-yo at stops by learning to use the rear dump?

 

[cool_hardware52]

And don't worry... no hangings.

The peasants will be disappointed...


To date all my donuts have been from Crisspy Creme...


Tobin George

 

[cool_hardware52]

One item I forgot to address... dumping gas on ascent.

I prefer horizontal neutrally buoyant ascents. When I need to dump gas from the wing I trim slightly butt up and use the rear dump to burp a little bit out as I am coming to my stop.

(Boy that sounds bad :11: )

By staying horizontal it is easy to peg a stop without overshooting. Slightly heads up and you can't use you fins to stop and if you dump too much gas using the inflator hose you sink back down. I wonder how many folks would be able to lick the yo-yo at stops by learning to use the rear dump?

I'll give it a try.



Tobin