Simple question about removing backup regulator

[Slonda828]

The answer is not more air, it's better understanding of the risks involved, more trained skills in emergency avoidance and management, and subsequently better judgement. You could carry 100 cft in a large bottle, 4 extra 2nd stages, and you're still at 100 ft with no buddy support several miles offshore with no emergency O2. You could get snagged on something, or get sick, or have a runaway ascent, get caught in a current, maybe the guy in the boat takes a nap, all sorts of things.

It's risky, and of course air is a big part of it, although in this lengthy thread you've mentioned nothing about gas management. (If I'm not mistaken) You did ditch the spare air, which is a good step, but if you think that the absence or presence of an octo makes any significant difference on your safety in this situation, then I don't think you have a basic understanding of the possible risks.

Many, many recreational dive fatalities happen with plenty of gas left in the tank.

Try not to take these comments personally.

Matt's like me, he is a little passionate about his diving. His comments are great though, and he is a very knowledgeable DM. For example, when I first starting diving I did not know anything about gas planning. I made several dives that were deeper than they should have been on a single aluminum 80. Bob Bailey has a great article on gas planning, located here:

NWGratefulDiver.com

Also, regarding the length of your pony bottle hose. I am not a DIR/GUE guy, but they have some practices that are just smart. One of their practices is that all of their stage bottle second stage hoses are 40" in length. This allows them to route the second stage over their neck, and into their mouth on the right side. This keeps all their hoses routed the same way. Later, if you do decide to use stage or deco bottles, two things will happen:

-You will already have everything setup the way it needs to be.

-You will route your hose and second stage the standard way, so if you follow the rules, you will never breathe the wrong gas.

I know you are just using a pony bottle, but it is still an efficient and no hassle way to run and route your gear. Plus 40" means that if by some miracle you need to donate gas to someone, you can use your pony to do so without being all up in their proverbial grill piece.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Hi again mcavana. We should really move this to the "solo" section of the board.

Just a few comments about some the things you mentioned. These are just my thoughts / opinions, and are meant just to be helpful. If you’ve already thought all of this stuff through, my apologies:

.... I don't imagine a runaway assent happening. I figure the way this would happen would be when someone looses a weight belt. I have a weight integrated BC. That or an out of air situation, but that has already been covered.....

1.) Actually, one of the more typical/common causes of runaway ascents a "stuck" inflator button. I’ve practiced disconnecting the inflator hose while dumping air to make sure I can do it quickly “just in case”. Some inflators can be a little tough to disconnect under pressure, others are easy.
2.) Weights can accidentally be released. I prefer a traditional weight belt with SS buckle, but current integrated BC's are reportedly less prone to "dropping" weights accidentally than early models were. Know how (and remember to) "flare" on ascent if you do find yourself in a "runaway" situation, and you'll control your ascent rate.

.... Yes I could get snagged on something. Sure. I don't penetrate anything, so fishing line or rope would likely be the cause. I have a very high quality dive knife to deal that... and plenty of gas to sort things out......

Entanglement is the single biggest fear of most solo divers, because it is one of the few situations that can absolutely require a buddy to save you. Be prepared to remove your BC to get at (or out of) an entanglement. Integrated weights cause problems in this scenario (your BC gets "heavy" & you suddenly get "light" and start to float away when you remove it). So just think through as many “what-ifs” for these types of scenarios as you can. If entangled...STOP. Do not twist or turn. Try to figure it out 1st. You can sometimes just carefully back out of it. If this doesn’t work, then you’ll need to figure out where/how you are snagged. Work slowly and carefully to avoid making the entanglement worse. More than one knife / cutting tool positioned where you can reach them with either hand is advised because you may not be able to reach your primary knife...

.... As far as getting caught in the current... If their is a strong current (which I have still yet to see here in Jacksonville) I would simply stick to the anchor line when I head down and up. A general practice when I dive solo is to stay very close to the anchor anyway.....

Make sure to trail a long "current line" with a float on the end off the back of the boat if you are not already doing this.

.... You know how the point was made that the spair air was so dangerous because it was a false sense of security? Well I hate to tell be the one to tell you if you don't already know but a dive buddy can offer that same false sense of security. As statistics prove, There are a MANY situations where a dive accidents can and do happen when someone has a dive buddy. Don't turn your eye to the fact that a lot of those accidents would not have happened with a solo diver properly prepared with both training and equipment.

You are “preaching to the choir” here. But a good buddy team will always trump a well-prepared solo diver. No matter how good the solo diver is, there are situations that require an extra set of hands, and extra set of eyes, or just an extra brain to get out of or avoid. When you start doing the "what ifs", you'll realize that in many cases the only answer is "I die". When you go solo, you accept this extra risk, and do your best to reduce the risk by carefully planning and preparing for the dive. Extra gear and extra air does not remove the risk, it just buys you a little more time to problem solve. After you’ve decided to do it, just have fun

 

[mcavana]

by the way, I would have no problem with the mods moving this to the solo diving section... I understand why it would be a good idea to put it there.


Mike

 

[mcavana]

1.) Actually, one of the more typical/common causes of runaway ascents a "stuck" inflator button. I’ve practiced disconnecting the inflator hose while dumping air to make sure I can do it quickly “just in case”. Some inflators can be a little tough to disconnect under pressure, others are easy.


I can honestly say that I did not think of this. Thank you. I will practice disconnecting the hose the next time I go out.


Make sure to trail a long "current line" with a float on the end off the back of the boat if you are not already doing this.

No we don't do this. Obviously sounds like a good idea though. I can think of a few times when this would have been useful. I will make one of these tomorrow.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Recommend a long line for the current line. 150' of small diameter 3-strand poly line (since it floats) with a small float (you can use a boat fender) is actually not "overkill" here, just in case you surface down-current. You can grab the line and pull yourself back to the stern of the boat (just don't get tangled in it ). I think the only time I'd be hesitant to put one that long out is if there was boat traffic, but it sounds like you guys will be out away from the crowds so it should be fine.

Have fun!

 

[mcavana]

OK! I will pick up 150 feet today!

Anything else you would like to suggest?

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

......Anything else you would like to suggest?

Well, yes! Lots of ice for all the fish your going to spear


I had too much coffee my last couple posts (got longwinded, sorry ).

Have fun!

 

[mcavana]

too bad. :depressed: I was looking forward to coming home from work and finding more tips!

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

If you have any remaining "solo" questions you may wish to try the "solo" section (if we have not already beat everything to death in this thread ). You'll get lots of advice (some of it conflicting, but that just keeps things interesting ).

This thread has to be a new record for removing a backup reg

Best wishes and Good Hunting!

 

[Nemrod]

? maybe I am not explaing myself corectly??? I have one tank with 2 regulators (you know the basic diving with a buddy setup). I use the primary regulator, the second one hangs on my chest so I can offer it to a buddy when in need.

I just got the spairair bottle... Submersible Systems - Spare Air Models So that if my primary regulator fails for whatever reason or if I somehow run out of air, I can resort to my spairair bottle and head up.

Please correct me if my thinking is flawed here. I figure if I am diving solo, and have the spairair bottle, there is no reason for me to keep my backup regulator hooked up.

Your thinking is correct, I eliminate the extra second stage on my single hose solo rigs, however, if I bother to carry an extra air source it is a pony bottle of 19cf and not a Spare (no)Air.

My solo rig for my dive hundreds of yards off the beach at Pompano, notice not only do I not have an extra regulator or second stage or octopus but I don't have a BC either and it was not missed.

Checking my course:

Voit 50 Fathom twin hose, single stage, a great regulator for simple, minimalist solo diving.

Kinda lonely, just my float and me:

N, eliminate the extra stuff, reduce the clutter, enjoy the freedom