Question silt out communication

[lermontov]

wondering what comms system do people use in a silt out - had a recent trip where one diver went through a silty restriction and was waiting for the second diver to come through - second diver didn't want to follow so both waited for each other to make a move -both fearing if they both went at the same time they would meet head to head in a tight unturnable restriction

I have an idea of a plan but wanting to hear others systems

eg a signal for :
i need help
I are you coming?
yes im coming
no im not coming

 

[rddvet]

If a team is entering a small enough restriction that this could be a problem, it should have been discussed on the surface. The communication should be done on the surface. Aka “we’re going into a tight spot. If you’re not comfortable this is how long I’ll wait …yada yada.” If you’re going through that tight of a restriction and you didn’t know it going into the dive, then 9 out of 10 times it means you didn’t actually plan your dive

 

[AeroSpartacus]

Similar to what was said - if this happened unexpectedly, I'm probably going to turn the dive either seeing the restriction (if it's clear it will go to zero vis) or as the vis starts going to zero (could happen separate from any restriction). If we became separated in the process, I would wait ahead of the zero vis if possible (without dipping into my reserve gas) and leave a light/cookie if we didn't re-connect.

If it was known as a possibility beforehand, I would just have a system set up like how long to wait (if you're first). Or, if I'm on closed circuit I might be able to yell at the other person effectively

 

[lermontov]

Similar to what was said - if this happened unexpectedly, I'm probably going to turn the dive either seeing the restriction (if it's clear it will go to zero vis) or as the vis starts going to zero (could happen separate from any restriction). If we became separated in the process, I would wait ahead of the zero vis if possible (without dipping into my reserve gas) and leave a light/cookie if we didn't re-connect.

If it was known as a possibility beforehand, I would just have a system set up like how long to wait (if you're first). Or, if I'm on closed circuit I might be able to yell at the other person effectively

Think its a given that you would have to leave on reaching your min gas reserves - for me if I was second id want to know if the person in front was in trouble and needs assistance, maybe even lost the line (assuming there is one) waiting for say 10 min then heading back is not something id live with if it meant I didnt do everything I could to find/help them

If im the lead diver i still want to know if my second is safe - maybe theyre in the restriction and in trouble so i need to turn around and help them either way waiting in silence for 10 min then heading home seems inadequate

a well travelled cave is differant to a situation where your exploring a new area or trying to link sections together and theres no information or maybe no line to follow and not knowing if the restriction is 5 or 25 meters long.

 

[elmo]

Line signals I was taught as part of CDAA (Cave Divers Association of Australia) were:
1 tug of line: stop
2 tugs: ok (question and response, equivalent to ok hand signal)
Continuous tugs: not ok / I need assistance / distress
I assumed that was universal but perhaps not.
It doesn’t work very well with tight permanent line, or with thick gloves. But it’s quite well if someone is running out line (primarily or spool). There’s one cave in Mt Gambier where there’s a loose permanent line/rope through a restriction precisely for this purpose.

 

[oya]

1 tug of line: stop

Do not - under any circumstances, or for any reason whatsoever - EVER tug on a guideline. You risk breaking either the guideline or whatever the guideline may be tied off to. Either of those things are bad.

In zero visibility the things that can practically and effectively be communicated via touch contact along a line among a team who have been similarly trained are:
- Go forward
- Stop
- Move Back
- Cross the line
- Entanglement

A REALLY tight team might be able to communicate a couple more things like navigational decisions or the like. But that's optimistic.

In any case, anything more complicated than the correct way safely out of the cloud can't really be discussed until you're out.

A team who isn't similarly trained is probably going to have a mostly confused conversation of shoving back and forth that communicates very little.

eg a signal for :
i need help
I are you coming?
yes im coming
no im not coming

If the team isn't together... the person who is separated needs help. No signal needed, someone is coming.

All that said...
The likelihood of truly zero visibility for longer than a few body lengths is (or should be) pretty low. Low enough that planning a comprehensive communication system is a little like learning to speak Klingon.

 

[lermontov]

). There’s one cave in Mt Gambier where there’s a loose permanent line/rope through a restriction precisely for this purpose.

FYI the dive was in Tank cave trying to connect L5 to F4

 

[rjack321]

wondering what comms system do people use in a silt out - had a recent trip where one diver went through a silty restriction and was waiting for the second diver to come through - second diver didn't want to follow so both waited for each other to make a move -both fearing if they both went at the same time they would meet head to head in a tight unturnable restriction

Come through exiting or come through entering?

 

[lermontov]

Come through exiting or come through entering?

come through entering but slightly longer to exit along F return - see pic L5 - F4

 

[rjack321]

Line signals I was taught as part of CDAA (Cave Divers Association of Australia) were:
1 tug of line: stop
2 tugs: ok (question and response, equivalent to ok hand signal)
Continuous tugs: not ok / I need assistance / distress
I assumed that was universal but perhaps not.
It doesn’t work very well with tight permanent line, or with thick gloves. But it’s quite well if someone is running out line (primarily or spool). There’s one cave in Mt Gambier where there’s a loose permanent line/rope through a restriction precisely for this purpose.

What @oya said. Do not pull on the cave line ever.
Every cave line should be tight, loose line, especially in a silt out is a disaster.