Sidemount upside down help!

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That's said, it's definitely different and a little weird, the spine attachment.
Do you just run a longer bolt snap attachment? Would be cool to see how it looks

And I'm glad to ditch the way-overbuilt XDeep harness
Amen to that.

Patrick made a post showing that they are patenting some stuff for a new harness, hopefully they simplify it (especially all the connections at the back).
 
However, please don't insult a 30+ year cave diving veteran and respected training director for America's oldest cave diving organization. Let's discuss pro's and con's, and all improve, instead. Right?

“Hey guys, my instructor that hasn’t taken a class in twenty years has encouraged me to try something that is not only not recommended by the manufacturer, but is disconnected from all other current modalities of modern sidemount.”

Don’t get me wrong; he’s great around a fire and he’s done a large number of historically significant dives. He’s not someone that should be teaching introductory level cave and sidemount courses.
 
I understand the traditional cylinder and stage attachment method; and I appreciate your strong opinion. However, please don't insult a 30+ year cave diving veteran and respected training director for America's oldest cave diving organization. Let's discuss pro's and con's, and all improve, instead. Right?

That's said, it's definitely different and a little weird, the spine attachment. I'm not a disciple (which is why I posted here), but it does free up a lot of space. And I'm glad to ditch the way-overbuilt XDeep harness, in place of webbing alone.
Unfortunately the history of the diver does not necessarily qualify them to make the best decisions with current practices as their training may be quite old. There is no required con-ed in the diving world so while they may have been sidemounting for 30+ years, if they are still sidemount diving like we were even 10 years ago they are unfortunately very far out of touch with the current best practices and is actually where a freshly minted instructor who has trained recently on that type of equipment will actually likely be a better source of information for gear configuration. Many of us that have been diving for a long time have found what works for us and our specific style of diving and unless gear is being given to us for prototyping or as an ambassador then we are not likely to be familiar with it.
I still personally dive a first gen Dive Rite Nomad, and while I have some more modern style rigs, that still works best for the type of sidemounting that I do and will be the first to tell you that I am not the one you should come to if you want specific nuances of fitting an xDeep as mine is one of the OG versions and I'm not going to "stay current" with the gear trends unless they do something specific to improve my diving, and most of the other instructors are no different. We should all be well versed in the type of gear coming in, but well versed is a far cry from an expert.

It unfortunately sounds like this unnamed instructor is not giving you the best configuration examples for that type of diving and your specific gear configuration and sounds like a general lack of familiarity with it. We have been diving stages on xDeep style rigs for a very long time now and there are plenty of ways to skin that cat and I'm not sure that moving the attachment to the spine is a good idea. From a pure physics standpoint it is going to change the way the tanks hang and not in a favorable way, it can also be a potential hazard from an entanglement perspective in truly tight cave passages since you have something loose on your back and depending on your exposure suit you may not be able to reach it to detach, this is a huge safety concern in tight passages and it sounds like your instructor is not actively diving those types of passages with that configuration or it would not have been recommended to you.

My recommendation would be to use sliding d-rings for the 85's and that way you can slide them forward when you want to roll upside down. I certainly dive upside down on a regular basis though I would not recommend crawling on the ceiling like spider man. I can't think of any common high flow passages where that is better than properly reading the flow and moving along the walls. The sliding d-rings will leave you adequate space to slide them back towards the spine if you are diving with front mounted stages, though I will also recommend that you not move past 2x stages with sidemount as it gets to be very clunky. If you must, then you should be doing setup dives before hand where cleanup can be done with a leash to tow them out between your legs.
 
Could someone explain to me that attachment method to the spine? Was it an old way of attaching sm tanks?

Do you run a bolt snap attached to a rope thats tied to the spine area of the harness, and then you clip that bolt snap to the tank?
Or instead you run a longer bolt snap attachment from your tank and somehow clip it on to the spine area of the harness..
 
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Not sure why LP85s wouldn't fit sweet as a button to some waist D rings set back.

Never had an issue with tins hanging when flipped on my back.
 
Unfortunately the history of the diver does not necessarily qualify them to make the best decisions with current practices as their training may be quite old. There is no required con-ed in the diving world so while they may have been sidemounting for 30+ years, if they are still sidemount diving like we were even 10 years ago they are unfortunately very far out of touch with the current best practices and is actually where a freshly minted instructor who has trained recently on that type of equipment will actually likely be a better source of information for gear configuration. Many of us that have been diving for a long time have found what works for us and our specific style of diving and unless gear is being given to us for prototyping or as an ambassador then we are not likely to be familiar with it.
I still personally dive a first gen Dive Rite Nomad, and while I have some more modern style rigs, that still works best for the type of sidemounting that I do and will be the first to tell you that I am not the one you should come to if you want specific nuances of fitting an xDeep as mine is one of the OG versions and I'm not going to "stay current" with the gear trends unless they do something specific to improve my diving, and most of the other instructors are no different. We should all be well versed in the type of gear coming in, but well versed is a far cry from an expert.

It unfortunately sounds like this unnamed instructor is not giving you the best configuration examples for that type of diving and your specific gear configuration and sounds like a general lack of familiarity with it. We have been diving stages on xDeep style rigs for a very long time now and there are plenty of ways to skin that cat and I'm not sure that moving the attachment to the spine is a good idea. From a pure physics standpoint it is going to change the way the tanks hang and not in a favorable way, it can also be a potential hazard from an entanglement perspective in truly tight cave passages since you have something loose on your back and depending on your exposure suit you may not be able to reach it to detach, this is a huge safety concern in tight passages and it sounds like your instructor is not actively diving those types of passages with that configuration or it would not have been recommended to you.

My recommendation would be to use sliding d-rings for the 85's and that way you can slide them forward when you want to roll upside down. I certainly dive upside down on a regular basis though I would not recommend crawling on the ceiling like spider man. I can't think of any common high flow passages where that is better than properly reading the flow and moving along the walls. The sliding d-rings will leave you adequate space to slide them back towards the spine if you are diving with front mounted stages, though I will also recommend that you not move past 2x stages with sidemount as it gets to be very clunky. If you must, then you should be doing setup dives before hand where cleanup can be done with a leash to tow them out between your legs.
I've had a good chuckle at some of the folks on youtube surrounded by 6 alu 80's. At that point, sell off 3 of the regulators and you got the down payment on a rebreather taken care of.

+1 to the sliding d-ring comment as well. I haven't seen a solution that beats the sliders so far.
 
The best thing about Sidemount is there are a thousand ways to set up and rig your system.

The worst thing about Sidemount is... there are a thousand ways to adjust your rig.
(14 years side mounting, and still making adjustments)
 
Unfortunately the history of the diver does not necessarily qualify them to make the best decisions with current practices as their training may be quite old. There is no required con-ed in the diving world so while they may have been sidemounting for 30+ years, if they are still sidemount diving like we were even 10 years ago they are unfortunately very far out of touch with the current best practices

Reminds me of a project I was working on with well known and respected cave instructor trainer. I took cave from him and there was lots of "no suicide clips, no metal to metal connections" during training. I didn't do any sidemount with him though. On this dive I was getting in, he was getting out, but was taking forever while face down in the water futzing with his bottom clip. After a few minutes I asked if he needed some help, since his buddy had already gotten out of the water and was back at camp. He just looked at me with angry face and pointed to the lower clip. I swam over to help out and he has an aluminum climbing carabiner (I think it was locking, but don't remember), attached to his tank with a hose clamp so it was in a fixed position, sticking out at 90 degrees from the tank, and his buttplate was clipped directly into the carabiner. I'm sure it is awesome for attaching the tanks, but at some point, probably when gearing up, he had also clipped his long hose in there and it was all jammed up and couldn't open.

I looked at him and said "WTF dude?" He was just shaking his head. Hopefully in embarrassment. It took me a good 2 minutes to get him unclipped and that was with both hands and being able to see.

Not sure if he is still diving that way or not, this was 10 years ago now.
 
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