Sick Lionfish worldwide phenomenon. Is there hope?

[KathyV]

...I have been worried about the efficiency of harvesting them above 120 feet, how many are below safe diving depth? And what is their natural predictors in their home environment? Die you b*stards is my feeling.

That has also been my concern, I asked @kensuf about that after he did a rebreather dive trip to Cayman Brac last year. Like Bonaire, all 3 Cayman islands have engaged in culling lionfish, but the efforts are concentrated around popular dive sites and at recreational depths, so I wondered if they growing abundantly at other sites and depths?

He said that he regularly sees lionfish at deeper depths around Grand Cayman but he only saw a small number of lionfish around Brac and only one small one below 200 feet. He theorized that the large grouper population, and perhaps also the larger shark populations, around Brac may be the reason there have fewer lionfish at both recreational and deeper depths; see the link below.

I would like to ask @kensuf if he has ever dived the 12 Mile Bank - also called the 4th Cayman Island? A submerged island about 10-12 miles from Grand Cayman. The reef starts at around 90 feet and some tech dive ops offer occasional trips there - sometimes for rebreather diving.

Fishermen do go there but in general, but I understand that the area is much less interfered with by humans than the other Cayman islands, and I don't imagine that there have been many efforts to cull lionfish around that remote location. I've wondered about the populations of lionfish and predators around that distant and more pristine site?

Cayman Brac Invasion

 

[caydiver]

When locals go culling they do not just go to usual dive sites unlike when they have guests on the boats. There are organized culls that have nothing to do with visitors and often DM's will go to other spots on their days off. Just like anywhere in the world, there are many events across the board that do not affect visitors and in this instance the DOE and others have a mailing list for the ops and the events are closed so there is not reason for visitors to know anything about them.
12 Mile Bank is where many fisherman to especially for the tournaments. But also the local fishing boats go regularly. Don't know that fishing boats and divers is something that really go hand in hand especially for those who are not familiar with the locale and know of at least one terrible incident that involved a family fishing in a tournament with other boats around when the seas turned nasty. There is good reason ops don't take visitors diving there unless they set up something special in advance. It is also too costly on fuel and time unless private charters are involved so I doubt it will ever become a dive site. That said I am sure because of what it is that naturally marine life is more abundant and where there is more food there are more predators.
In the past several months we have seen a decline in the population here and hopefully the decline will continue. However speculation on any of these points is pointless but perhaps someone with actual local scientific knowledge would be the best source. The DOE has lots of first hand information available.

 

[boulderjohn]

He theorized that the large grouper population, and perhaps also the larger shark populations, around Brac may be the reason there have fewer lionfish at both recreational and deeper depths; see the link below.

I just came back from more than 2 weeks of diving in Palau, an island cluster in the western Pacific, the natural home of lionfish. In about 35 hours of diving there, I saw exactly two very small lionfish.

I saw lots of sharks, though. I can't begin to estimate the number. I also saw loads of large groupers (2-4 feet). On one dive I bet I saw more groupers in that size range than I have seen in all my dives the past 10 years in the Caribbean and Florida combined. They are a protected species in Palau, and you will not see grouper on any menu.

 

[boulderjohn]

Just a thought - could it be that some of the species lionfish are now exposing themselves species that carry something that is harmful to lionfish. A bit like grey squirrels carrying a virus that kills red squirrels.

I am pretty sure that all the lionfish in the Caribbean and the Atlantic have been shown to be of one species, descended from one initial starting family group.

 

[caydiver]

Don't get it. Sorry for not using quoting. Lets make it simple. How often do you dive in Grand Cayman or for that sisters? What really is the point of asking for second hand info from someone who has no baseline. Copying threads does no one any true info. Put some serious weight behind it. If you have been coming to to GC or the Sisters for years what have you logged on your dives and how many dive sites are you basing your information on?

 

[KathyV]

I don't expect 12-mile bank to become a common dive site, I just wondered how the fish populations there differed from the reefs around the other Cayman Islands; if they are much different.

 

[drbill]

As has been pointed out earlier, the red lionfish (Pterois volitans) is native to the Indo-Pacific and I have yet to see reports of such deaths from their native region so it is hardly a world-wide phenomenon. I have dived with them many times both in the Indo-Pacific and in the Caribbean. I have read there is a second lionfish species invasive in the Caribbean as well.

 

[drrich2]

It seems so. From a Lionfish Hunting page at https://lionfish.co/lionfish-faq/:

"The lionfish invasion consists almost entirely of two species of lionfish, Pterois volitans (red lionfish) and Pterois miles (common lionfish or devil firefish). Virtually indistinguishable from each other outside of the laboratory, P. volitans is thought to make up approximately 93% of the total invasive population."

And from a NOAA page discussing their invasive presence in the Atlantic:

"Scientific Name: Pterois volitans (red lionfish) and Pterois miles (devil firefish)"

Richard.

 

[tomfcrist]

We are seeing the lesions on the lion fish up in NC as well.