Shouldn't DSMB be required as part of training?

[KeithG]

At least the skill should be taught and encourage student to practice this often after cert. This is my opinion and I don't think I am over stating its importance.

I agree it can be a useful skill, but not one that is universally required. it all depends on where you are diving. in some cases you must have one. in others you will never need one.

i have never seen one deployed, and have never been in dive conditions that would require one. it is a piece of equipment i will never own or need. for the dives i do. for others it is mandatory. does not mean i need one.

i do carry an SMB and have never used it either. i have also never descended or ascended on an anchor line...

different types of dives require different skills and equipment. i am not sure that you can pile everything into basic level courses.

 

[Z Gear]

I agree it can be a useful skill, but not one that is universally required. it all depends on where you are diving. in some cases you must have one. in others you will never need one.

i have never seen one deployed, and have never been in dive conditions that would require one. it is a piece of equipment i will never own or need. for the dives i do. for others it is mandatory. does not mean i need one.

i do carry an SMB and have never used it either. i have also never descended or ascended on an anchor line...

different types of dives require different skills and equipment. i am not sure that you can pile everything into basic level courses.

I carry one but never felt the need to actually use one because I never really saw others around me use it and I was not taught nor emphasized to use it.
Then last weekend was what changed it for me. We where in an area were a jet ski was cruising by pretty fast and another diver who was closer to the jet ski gave us a comment on her face book page of the near incident. This didn't have to end up as an accident for me to see the potential danger in surfacing with out a marker. It could be a small vessel like a kayak o dingy with a troll motor, jet ski, fishing boat dive boat etc... You really don't know after you dive down what exactly is coming toward you at the surface. My attitude before was simply I was not taught this so it must not be vital or important enough to actually do it on my ascents.

I know now that this was something I should take a second look at and perhaps take as a warning. This could happen to anyone, at any time and at any place, the best thing is to not ignor the potential danger and be comfortable using the DSMB on your ascents. You and your dive buddy are worth the effort, better to be safe than sorry.The way we are trained has made this topic a bit obscured for some and I think it is unfortunate because I think some have the notion that they don't need oit because this type of thing is not going to happen to them.

I hope no one has to have a close call or no some one who had an incident to realize how important this really is.

I will have to say PADI deserves recognition and credit for being a leader in requiring this as part of the training. They have really made it easier for others to follow their lead and I hope the other schools will do this soon.

 

[danvolker]

As a "skill" goes, I still think sending up a DSMB requires a "class" on it about as much as it does for using an Underwater Light....I can see the PADI Specialty now...Underwater Light Diver!!!
The real skill comes from the Peak Control Buoyancy class, so a diver hanging at 20 feet can stay glued to this depth without difficulty....And it's why a GUE Fundies diver can do this so effortlessly--because of the skill being so well developed, for being able to hold an exact stop depth, without using any mental bandwidth.

If you want to be "SAFE" when you surface, the DSMB, and even one of my big Omer Torpedo Floats with a high flag on it....is NOT really functional as something you can EXPECT to keep boats from running over your head on surfacing. If you ever go out in a private boat that can run at 25 to 35 mph.....If you run over a reef line with divers on it, with flags, you'll be SHOCKED at how suddenly a flag is right in front of the boat! The fast boaters just don't see the flag, until often it is too late---they just blow by, but fortunately, the diver was not surfacing at the moment the boat was blowing by near the flag. Many fisherman just don't care at all....They know there is no Marine Patrol to see their infraction, and they don't like divers anyway--many are going to run over the area of the divers ,near the float, on purpose--some may even toss out a line and troll over the divers....In Florida, this happens all to often.

I pull a Torpedo float, so that our Charter boat can follow us, and know where we are, so they can play "chicken" with any douches in boats approaching at high speed--and force them to beyond 300 feet from the dive flag. While speeding boaters may not be vigilant or notice you flag, your dive boat can easily stay with it, and it is very rare for an oncoming boat to not quickly turn away when challenged by a dive boat........If I were to do the dive without towing a torpedo, but just sending up a DSMB at the end of the dive, we would be many MILES from where we started, due to swimming and to the currents...and it would be next to impossible for the boat to see the DSMB when we surfaced, unless conditions were so flat they could follow our bubbles the entire dive--in which case, we don't need no stinking DSMB or torpedo.....Since you can't count on this, that's not really much of an option.. :-(


Again....Jetskiis and speedboats should be considered as hostile to divers...even if it is only 25% to 45% of them, you need to act as if it is all of them. Assume they would be just fine running over you, and that when you go from 10 feet from surface, to the surface, you NEED TO BE SPINNING 360 DEGREES, AND LISTENING FOR PROPS AND DOPPLER SHIFT... if you hear a boat approaching, you CAN'T SURFACE. You go up when it get's quiet.
If there are too many boats for this to work, you can't dive without a charter boat following you.

And, as to currents some place by the phillipines or elsewhere being too strong to tow a float....you need to try a torpedo float, like Omer or Mako or Riffe....they require a towing harness so the line pulls down from about 1/3 of the way back from the front of the float....so a diver fighting a big current does not cause the torpedo to have it's nose pulled down--and to begin dragging by the nose--fine for slowing a speared fish, not good for what we want. With the towing harness, a diver in a 4 knot current at 280 feet, with several different currents on the way down, can tow a torpedo without undue difficulty--though for the 280 foot deep towing, it's way mnore fun to tow with a Scooter . We have been doing drift dives towing torpedo floats in Palm Beach since the 80's. Using a float ball or a float flag, only works effortlessly with very mild currents.

 

[tbone1004]

If that is the case why has PADI succesfully implemented this as part of the training program, and has not deemed it to difficult for new divers to learn?

talked to a course director from PADI last night about this. They felt they needed to implement safety sausage deployment at the OW level because it is a legitimate safety concern. They added the DSMB because in some locations, some instructors wanted to teach that instead of a safety sausage because inflating a safety sausage require literally no skill at all. "Blow up tube, while sitting your overweighted butt on the surface". PADI needs to add a lot of "or's" to their standards because they are not allowed the liberty in teaching that other agencies do. Pros and cons, but they have not deemed DSMB's as a "not difficult" skill, only safety sausages, it is up to the instructor whether they want to teach DSMB's or not. Also note, if the diver can't shoot the DSMB, but can deploy a safety sausage, they technically can't be failed because they completed the "or" of the skill. This is at least what was told to me by someone who was pushing PADI to adopt the safety sausage as a requirement in OW.

 

[Z Gear]

talked to a course director from PADI last night about this. They felt they needed to implement safety sausage deployment at the OW level because it is a legitimate safety concern. They added the DSMB because in some locations, some instructors wanted to teach that instead of a safety sausage because inflating a safety sausage require literally no skill at all. "Blow up tube, while sitting your overweighted butt on the surface". PADI needs to add a lot of "or's" to their standards because they are not allowed the liberty in teaching that other agencies do. Pros and cons, but they have not deemed DSMB's as a "not difficult" skill, only safety sausages, it is up to the instructor whether they want to teach DSMB's or not. Also note, if the diver can't shoot the DSMB, but can deploy a safety sausage, they technically can't be failed because they completed the "or" of the skill. This is at least what was told to me by someone who was pushing PADI to adopt the safety sausage as a requirement in OW.

Well the important hee to note overall all is that PADI is doing the right thing and the other schools should follow this example for the sake and safety of new divers. Remember there logic there will be more divers potentially at risk with more vessels out in the water etc, etc... This is not the 60's 70's 80's
some times change is a good thing, in this case I believe it is.

As far as the smb, I actually would have to say the DSMB is more practical overall because water currents and other factors ( like in my case) like kelp prevent me from towing an SMB so I would benefit more from the DSMB training.

 

[Redshift]

You speak as if PADI is leading something, but sending a DSMB has been taught by BSAC and CMAS for years.

 

[KeithG]

Well the important hee to note overall all is that PADI is doing the right thing and the other schools should follow this example for the sake and safety of new divers. Remember there logic there will be more divers potentially at risk with more vessels out in the water etc, etc... This is not the 60's 70's 80's
some times change is a good thing, in this case I believe it is.

As far as the smb, I actually would have to say the DSMB is more practical overall because water currents and other factors ( like in my case) like kelp prevent me from towing an SMB so I would benefit more from the DSMB training.

I still think you are over reacting. A DSMB is not a universal requirement. It is a must have in some situations, but not required in many.

Based on my diving, I feel that multiple lights and multiple dive computers are mandatory! But I realize that there is a large segment of divers who never carry, use or need a light. Night dives are our favourite and there is no way we are willing to cut a dive short due to a light failure. So in my world extra lights are mandatory! I also realize there are very few divers that carry more than 1 computer. I consider 2 as necessary, 3 is sufficient.

But maybe I am over reacting as well?

 

[Z Gear]

You speak as if PADI is leading something, but sending a DSMB has been taught by BSAC and CMAS for years.

I did not know that, thanks for the info. I am just trying to recognize those organizations that have actually implemented this as part of the training program. If these schools have then they deserve credit as well.

 

[Edward3c]

I did not know that, thanks for the info. I am just trying to recognize those organizations that have actually implemented this as part of the training program. If these schools have then they deserve credit as well.

BSAC teach SMB in Sports Diver lesson 2, and DSMB in lesson 4. Then mid-water DSMB in Dive Leader lesson 1.

 

[tstormdiver]

Well the important hee to note overall all is that PADI is doing the right thing and the other schools should follow this example for the sake and safety of new divers. Remember there logic there will be more divers potentially at risk with more vessels out in the water etc, etc... This is not the 60's 70's 80's
some times change is a good thing, in this case I believe it is.

As far as the smb, I actually would have to say the DSMB is more practical overall because water currents and other factors ( like in my case) like kelp prevent me from towing an SMB so I would benefit more from the DSMB training.

Odd.... I did my OW training (in 2006) through PADI & was never taught to deploy an SMB from the surface or below. But then I was taught only the very basic bare bones skills. I was never even told what an SMB was. I was not introduced to an SMB until I went through my Adv. Nitrox & Deco procedures course through IANTD. I can tell you from experience, I am required to teach my students vastly more than I was taught in OW. Maybe it was just I had a bare bones instructor.....